US Senator - Framed?

[Philistine]

{snip} Specifically, he was one of the prime moving forces for the adoption of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.

Source: http://www.slate.com/id/2173102/nav/tap1/
{snip}

I'm pretty sure he wasn't. The Slate article you cite, as its support for "Craig helped to enact the military's 'don't ask, don't tell' policy" just links to the '93 vote tally on Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) showing Craig voted for it.

As did all but 5 Democrats in the Senate. You seem to be forgetting two things--DADT was passed by a Democratic President with fairly solid Democratic majorities in both the House and the Senate--and DADT was a significantly more gay-friendly policy than the Pentagon's previous policy (the two points are, perhaps, not unrelated...)

From what I've seen so far, Craig's position doesn't appear to be particularly less gay-friendly then the general Republican platform.

--Philistine

[Philistine]

{snip}
Or are we just assuming that all Republicans are Bible-thumping family-values gay-bashers by default?

Hmmm... if the shoe fits....

Seriously though, to what do you attribute the difference in Republican reactions to Craig, versus the reactions to David Vitter's admission of hiring an escort service? To my knowledge, no colleague has suggested Vitter resign.

--Philistine

[keith]

all you're saying is you think all homosexuals should share the same political beliefs, merely because of their orientation. what an offensive attitude!

Indeed it would be perfectly legitimate that a homosexual felt that it was against his/her interests to support legal protection for their property and heirs within a relationship.

[jeff]

From AP at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070831/...GoeVo_NnWs0NUE

"President Bush passed on an opportunity to defend Craig. Asked Friday
at a White House press event if the senator should resign, Bush said nothing and walked off stage"

"Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell called Craig's conduct "unforgivable" and acknowledged that many in his caucus believe Craig should resign."

"party officials said a statement had been drafted at Republican Party headquarters calling for Craig to resign."

So, the party is really sticking up for him...

On a local note: this poser should stop using the name "Craig", which enjoys a higher reputation on this board!

[jeff]

And now, in the immortal words of Jeff Bukantz: "Going, going, gone!". http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070831/...wvghRsgEis0NUE

In all seriousness, I really don't take pleasure from his downfall (I'm much more pleased to see AG Gonzales leave in disgrace). This case is kind of pathetic, really. Apparently, a closeted and conflicted gay man (who may even deny it to himself) felt he had to secretly obtain illicit sex because he couldn't be open about his own sexuality, certainly not while in the position and party he was in. That he trumpeted "family values" as part of his political life may have been cover as much as political expediency. What is sad is that he was part of the homophobia that the Republicans exploit and participate in. He's neither the first nor last person to be both victimizer and one of the victims.

[Slim]

I'm really not sure what we are arguing here....I'm saying that if the man is gay, and I am increasingly persuaded that he is, then he is enormously hypocritical in casting these votes. If he is not gay- then I also take issue with his voting record, but at least he is not a hypocrite. What are you arguing?

So the man has decided that his sexual preference is no ones business other than his own, and has chosen to deny that he is gay. Fine by me. I dont care what someone chooses to do in their private life. If he reached over and touched the cop, or exposed himself, then a crime was committed.

You seem to think everyone that has ever had a homosexual experience is definitely gay and therefore they are required to proclaim their gayness and immediately fall into line with ALL the ideas of the homosexual political lobby. According to your logic, anyone that has ever had a homosexual experience or has even been accused of one must be gay and if they disagree with the gay agenda, must also be a hypocrite.

I thought gay was a sexual orientation? You talk like it's a political party.

[mrbiggs]

You seem to think everyone that has ever had a homosexual experience is definitely gay

If you're soliciting sex in a public bathroom, you are probably gay.

I suppose it's not definite.

And if you are gay, it is probably hypocritical if you buy into the notion that homosexuality is a sin. I don't know if this particular Senator did say this, but he certainly voted along with that political lobby.

I agree that he's not the biggest example of hypocrisy when it comes to the "family values." The very conservative minister who was caught several months ago with a male prostitute, for example, was much more extreme example, both in how conservative. But I think it shows that some of their policies about homosexuals can't be followed quite as easily as they make them sound.

I'd go as far as to say that soliciting sex in a bathroom counts as both "asking" and "telling."

[Slim]

And if you are gay, it is probably hypocritical if you buy into the notion that homosexuality is a sin. I don't know if this particular Senator did say this, but he certainly voted along with that political lobby.

This is very interesting. We have people who claim "sexual addiction" exists. Some believe this exists and some don't. I believe there are addictive personalities, and sexual relief could be a vice. Perhaps seeking anonymous sex in public places is an example of addictive behavior, because as we all know, it's twisted, risky and out of the norm for most to comprehend. Why on earth with someone with so much to lose do such a stupid thing? Is he stupid, as in a low intellect? No, he's obviously got a major malfunction. Similar to sticking a needle in your arm, or gambling away the equity in the house. No?

Do you think its possible that perhaps he's telling the truth and really not "gay" in the political sense? Maybe he's someone who just cant control his addictive behavior and "gets off" on the thrill of what he is doing. Maybe he didnt care what gender was on the other side of the stall.

Is it a "gay" trait to solicit sex from random strangers in bathrooms? Do similar things go on between lesbians in public bathroom? Maybe if women were wired different and into random sex partners and there were unisex bathrooms, he'd be tap dancing for the ladies instead of settling for a guy. I dont know...I'm just asking.

Its probably more of a sign of a big problem than a sign of being "gay".

Honesty, he's a guy with some issues.The only people who really to care about his sexual inclination are those who want to pummel him with it. He would have been much better off if he just claimed he was an alcoholic and checked into rehab. After 9 months of sobriety and re-finding Jesus, all would have been forgiven.

[mrbiggs]

Its probably more of a sign of a big problem than a sign of being "gay".

Oh, I see your point now. I agree, of course, he's not soliciting sex from strangers because he's gay. However, the fact that they are men implies that he's gay, which means that on top of violating the general idea behind family values by soliciting sex from strangers in a bathroom, he is, in fact, legislating against people whose situation he should be able to understand.

[Slim]

And now, in the immortal words of Jeff Bukantz: "Going, going, gone!". http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070831/...wvghRsgEis0NUE

In all seriousness, I really don't take pleasure from his downfall (I'm much more pleased to see AG Gonzales leave in disgrace). This case is kind of pathetic, really. Apparently, a closeted and conflicted gay man (who may even deny it to himself) felt he had to secretly obtain illicit sex because he couldn't be open about his own sexuality, certainly not while in the position and party he was in. That he trumpeted "family values" as part of his political life may have been cover as much as political expediency. What is sad is that he was part of the homophobia that the Republicans exploit and participate in. He's neither the first nor last person to be both victimizer and one of the victims.

So there are no gay republicans or gay conservatives? And anyone that disagrees with the gay agenda is a homophobe and a victimizer and gays are victims? Jeff, give me a freaking break.

I really have to laugh at this whole..."well, he did this, and therefore he must be gay since he must be gay, he has to adhere to the gay agenda or he's a bad, bad man."

Unless of course, he celebrates his gayness and participates as the MC of the the next GayDay parade. Then he's AOK.

There is a Gay party within the democrat party. I think gay republicans are the ones being victimized.

[Phaeton]

He was framed...by the MLB...satellites in the sky...Matt Groening...

[mrbiggs]

the gay agenda

What, exactly is the gay agenda?

Wanting rights?

Or is it something more along the lines of the Jewish banking conspiracy?

[Lemonaide]

I have decided not to care about these men anymore and their garbage. So I am deleting everything and let them sort things out for themselves. I am only a simple person, with little means, and it has cost me too much over the years to come to the defense of a bunch of criminals.

[Slim]

Lefty:
It's not the fact the he is or is not gay, it isi the fact that most if not al Republican senators are by default homo-phobic. I do not know for sure (you should be able to lok it up yourself) but the rumor is that this senator was one of the aformentioned homo-phobes and a vociferous one at that The fact the he was caught soliciting in a mens bathroom is a sign of what many (including myself) believe to be another example of the Republican leadership hypocracy.

Crack me up. So, I'll claim most democrats are Christian-o-phobes because they wont let my town display a nativity scene at Christmas, but are fine with spending tax dollars to pay for foot baths to be installed in a public university for our islamic brethren.

Classic lib tactic....if you're pushing an ideology or agenda, label those who oppose it as racist, bigoted homophobes.

[Philistine]

{snip} However, the fact that they are men implies that he's gay, which means that on top of violating the general idea behind family values by soliciting sex from strangers in a bathroom, he is, in fact, legislating against people whose situation he should be able to understand.

I'm not convinced. I don't see his opposition to gay marriage as necessarily inconsistent with his.... bathroom antics.

In the same way that I wouldn't consider a legislator's opposition to legalizing polygamy as inconsistent with his having a mistress (or two) on the side.

Now he's certainly a hypocrite when he tried to portray himself as upholding family values--a married man seeking anonymous sex in a public bathroom is not--under any definition--an example of "family values." His position on legalization of gay marriage, on the other hand, is not only his ostensible personal position, but also his position as a representative of the people of Iowa--who AIUI, not big proponents of it (recent trial-court case notwithstanding).

--Philistine

[Philistine]

{snip}I think gay republicans are the ones being victimized.

Of course, that victimization is coming from other Repulicans--who are the ones who called for Craig's resignation.

--Philistine.

[keith]

Crack me up. So, I'll claim most democrats are Christian-o-phobes because they wont let my town display a nativity scene at Christmas, but are fine with spending tax dollars to pay for foot baths to be installed in a public university for our islamic brethren.

hey while it's gettin' close to that 'save christmas' time of year you might want to wait until after thanksgiving.

[Slim]

Of course, that victimization is coming from other Repulicans--who are the ones who called for Craig's resignation.

--Philistine.

And this is because he may be gay? Wow, you really do believe "all republicans are homophobes" hype.

They want him out because he has a problem controlling himself and has shown poor judgement for a leadership postion.

[Slim]

hey while it's gettin' close to that 'save christmas' time of year you might want to wait until after thanksgiving.

You can go back to sleep now. This thread has nothing to do with christmas.

[keith]

You can go back to sleep now. This thread has nothing to do with christmas.

thanks for noticing.

On topic. Exactly how does a gay/bisexual/bicurious senator being hounded out of office by the republican party have anything to do with the poor liberals?

Or where they lacking in sufficient moral fiber to take on the liberal media. Or should that read the anti-gay liberal media?

The republican party has shown no such outrage when the lack of control affects either money or the opposite gender (or both in combination).