08-29-2007, 02:14 PM
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#61 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London
Posts: 462
| I'm with the ref (easy to say now of course).
The commentators don't seem to be in much doubt about the hit to go 11-10 up and they are Italian. It seems almost identical to the previous hit and they say "again!" - not that we should expect them to know anything 
Compare the subsequent hit where Vezzali seems convinced it is hers and I guess the delay means the ref is reviewing the video evidence before giving it to Lamonova. If you are going just on straightening arms then that looks like a clearer hit for Lamonova as she extends and then finishes but Vezzali's hand seems to come out later.
I think Vezzali's footwork is interesting to watch - throughout she seems to have a rhythmic movement over about three or four steps but on the beat attacks Lamonova picks a moment when Vezzali is more static.
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I caught this morning morning’s minion, king-
dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird,—the achieve of; the mastery of the thing! | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
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08-29-2007, 02:15 PM
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#62 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
| Upon further review, I've changed my mind. It was clearly a point-in-line. | |
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08-29-2007, 02:19 PM
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#63 | | Super Shoebie
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: VA
Posts: 1,080
| Quote:
Originally Posted by IanSerotkin  Upon further review, I've changed my mind. It was clearly a point-in-line. | Hahahahaha! I'm sorry, I'm out of rep! | |
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08-29-2007, 03:08 PM
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#64 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,048
| Both Lamanova's touch to get 10-10 and to get 11-10 are identical: sweeping circle-six beat coupe, hit the chest while Vezzali steps in. I don't know how anyone can say the 11-10 point is wrong while ignoring the 10-10 point.
And in both cases, Lamanova pulls her arm back WHILE making the beat. During this moment, she has control of Vezzali's blade. Once Lamanova's blade has passed Vezzali's blade tip, it immediately moves forward so there isn't even any "pulling the arm back" after the beat. Ok, maybe for the 2 inches after passing the tip. GMAB.
It's a standard beat-coupe attack. Sure, Lamanova lunged sooner than necessary, but as I said before, if she didn't Vezzali might have jumped back instead and the result would have been Lamanova's attack short. The speed of movement by Lamanova towards Vezzali signaled Vezzali to step in and thus gave what Lamanova what she needed (a body close enough to hit).
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08-29-2007, 08:32 PM
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#65 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: UK
Posts: 13
| Well, I stand corrected by more senior authority.
I don't know your Mr Cotton, but Mike Thornton (Head of the UK refs committee) agrees with the consensus here, and his opinion is good enough for me.
Just as well that I don't ref at comps with slo-mo playback isn't it?
Regards
Baldric Quote: |
Originally Posted by edew So the sun finally sets on the empire? | The sun has never set on the British Empire. You lot are still just a bunch of rebellious colonials. Long live King George! | |
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08-29-2007, 09:18 PM
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#66 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,971
| That's the spirit!
Now commenceth the obligatory Blackadder quotes:
Blackadder: "You have absolutely no idea what irony is, have you Baldrick?"
Baldric: "Yes I have. It's just like steely and goldie, 'cept it's made of iron"
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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08-30-2007, 12:08 PM
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#67 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern England
Posts: 232
| Having got totally fed up with the discussion of this topic on fencingforum.com, I decided to join this forum for some rather more intelligent discussion! | |
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08-30-2007, 01:07 PM
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#68 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,888
| What an optimistic idea!  | |
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08-30-2007, 01:16 PM
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#69 | | Super Shoebie
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: VA
Posts: 1,080
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkelephant Having got totally fed up with the discussion of this topic on fencingforum.com, I decided to join this forum for some rather more intelligent discussion! | Now, now... The Scot says we have to play nicely, but you're certainly welcome to our crowded little cyberbus stop!
I did have a thought that perhaps the more uniform response from this forum was actually because of the interminable Classical/Sport polarity we 'enjoy' on this continent. Because of our conflict, the camps are better defined and the positions have been 'hardened by war'...
Last edited by chefencer; 08-30-2007 at 01:19 PM.
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08-30-2007, 01:43 PM
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#70 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,547
| The weird thing about PE's post is that she knows full well that people have stopped talking about this on the UK forum. So she should be talking about getting any chat on this topic.
People talking about Sabre don't count.
Why am I "the scot"? I do have a name y'know. | |
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08-30-2007, 03:00 PM
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#71 | | Super Shoebie
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: VA
Posts: 1,080
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav ...Why am I "the scot"? I do have a name y'know. | Haha, it's just a joke. It makes things sound more dramatic... you know, like we do with Hinq Who Shall Not Be Named...but is always around. | |
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08-30-2007, 03:37 PM
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#72 | | Super Shoebie
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: VA
Posts: 1,080
| Quote:
Originally Posted by CvilleFencer I think I shall now refer to you as The Chef in all things. It does sound more dramatic and we can scare the children in the room by saying things along the lines of "They call him that because he dices people to ribbons on the strip". Course the megatard may take away a good amount of the scare factor.... | It just takes a certain level of self-confidence to be unitarded, but on the other hand I could walk around with one of these babies: 
heh, heh, heh...
edit: In fact I think I'll start carrying it around here!
Last edited by chefencer; 08-30-2007 at 03:54 PM.
Reason: New, more sinister leaf...
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08-30-2007, 03:42 PM
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#73 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,411
| Hmmm....the Rob Zombie school of cooking.
AE | |
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08-30-2007, 04:37 PM
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#74 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
| Now that we've covered how US and UK fencers would see a beat attack...
...in Soviet Russia, attack beats YOU! 
Sorry, couldn't resist. | |
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08-30-2007, 04:41 PM
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#75 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: the Salle(I no longer have a home address)
Posts: 1,073
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldric The sun has never set on the British Empire. You lot are still just a bunch of rebellious colonials. Long live King George! | Is that King George Bush??
BTW, Speaking as an epeeist this discussion illustrates why I am an epeeist. But just for curiousity's sake what is the wire cord running from the mask to the lame?? Have they finally made the bib a legitimate target??
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J Jefferies | |
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08-30-2007, 04:52 PM
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#76 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
| Quote:
Originally Posted by jjefferies But just for curiousity's sake what is the wire cord running from the mask to the lame?? Have they finally made the bib a legitimate target?? | I believe it's to make the mask light up when that fencer scores a touch. | |
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08-30-2007, 05:00 PM
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#77 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,888
| Quote:
Originally Posted by IanSerotkin Now that we've covered how US and UK fencers would see a beat attack...
...in Soviet Russia, attack beats YOU!
Sorry, couldn't resist. | Beat-fleche. Beat-fleche.
Yep, Soviet all right. | |
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08-30-2007, 07:40 PM
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#78 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,547
| Quote:
Originally Posted by CvilleFencer ... The Chef | I think Le Chef.
Yes, from now on Che is Le Chef. | |
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08-30-2007, 07:47 PM
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#79 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,547
| Quote:
Originally Posted by CvilleFencer I think it is sort of funny that it got as much debate going as it did. Apparently it got even more, and a more diverse, response on the UK board. Course a friend of mine competed in a satellite WC in Edinburgh and at it there were people arguing that the bells meeting during an action (without jostling) was a corp a corp... IN EPEE!  I think the weather just makes them inclined to be cantankerous.
(good natured teasing, no one take offense!) | Who was that?
I probably met him. | |
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08-31-2007, 01:24 AM
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#80 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Charlottesville VA
Posts: 3,047
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav Who was that?
I probably met him. | PMed some details to you Gav.
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Just another lost soul saved by the (hit) First Church of EPEE!
Bona Na Croin. "Neither Collar nor Crown"
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