Is there a special way to keep ahold of a french grip foil?

[angel]

I keep getting the foil knocked out of my hand in practice every time I parry. My instructor says I am handling it properly with just the thumb and forefinger. Is there something else I am missing? He suggested a strap. Is that what I should do?

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Angelo16

[FencerInUS]

If you are holding the foil with your thumb and index finger top and bottom respectivley, then you are holding it correctly. When you parry, you need to tighten your grip with your other 3 fingers. Not a death grip, just enough to hold the blade in your hand. The same goes for beats, tighten up just before you beat, beat, then go back to your thumb and forefinger with your lunge/ripost. thats how I learned it anyway, seems to work pretty well. anyone else have a different way

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F.I.US.
Parry, THEN riposte
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[Christopher J Umbs]

Yes, the Pinkie is really important with the French grip. More important than the thumb, I'd say. I can fence it with just the pinkie and forefinger.

Chris

[Lumberg]

It would be quite easy to be disarmed if you were only holding the blade with the thumb and fore-finger during a parry. The aides (last three fingers) are resting while in the en garde position, but you can grasp the grip with the aides while parrying, disengaging, beating, or any other move that would require more strength than using just the thumb and fore-finger. You are constantly squeezing and releasing the aides while fencing.
Feel free to ask me any other questions.

[rjccj]

Take it by the pommel and push it point first into the trash. Then buy a pistol grip.

[MikeHarm]

You can also make the grip of your sword hand stronger using exerputty, eagle claw trainers, squeezing tennis balls etc which will help. I liked using wriststraps in practice but remember they're illegal in competition now instead of mandatory like they used to be (according to the old AFL people I've talked to at least).

Mike

[Clean Touch]

Keeping a hold of the French grip is just as Lumberg describes it. The beauty of the french grip is the ability to change your grip to suit the moment. Hard for power, light for control, same for parrying. Gripit hard for the parries an instantly lighten up for the reposte. Hang in there, angel. You'll get the feel for it.

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Est-ce que l'attaque bon? Mais Oui!!

[neevel]

Another tip is to put a downward cant in the tang of the foil. This will allow you to hold the grip angled down in your hand, where it'll be a bit more secure between the palm and the fingers, while still keeping the foil blade and point at the desired level.

-Dave Neevel

[Christopher J Umbs]

Dave,

Good point. Mine is seriously canted and I really find that it improves my point control 100%.

Chris

[neevel]

The downward set is useful for just about any kind of grip except an Italian (due to the ricasso you aren't able to put a cant in one).

You do need to be careful if you've got a Russian or Ukranian blade dating from before '95 or so. The tangs on those blade were sometimes brittle and prone to snapping when bent. It's not a problem with recent blades from there.

-Dave

[angel]

Maybe I should just get an Italian foil. I've heard that those used to give good results WAY before pistol grips.

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Angelo16

[damianip]

Angel,,
The grip doesn't get results, the fencer does. I'd stick with a french until your point control gets settled.

I'd avoid the Italian unless you have an instructor who is trained in the Italian method. If you can find one, then fine.

You'll find in time that the grip is less important than technique and that most things you can do with an ortho, you'll be able to do with a French and vice versa.


Paolo

[Lumberg]

To rjccj,
Very funny response. You do realize you could keep the weapon, cut the tang short, and put a pistol grip on? Not all of us live in a lap of luxury and throw away foils just because they have a French grip. (joke, don't take seriously)

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Lumberg.
"...yeah...did you get the memo about the TPS reports?"

[angel]

I think that the 3 finders on the grip have another special use. I think that the 3 fingers have a special way of controlling the amount of strength put into a movement. Can anyone clue me in on how this might work and what fingers control what degree of force?

[neevel]

Basically, it's just a matter of how strongly you squeeze with those fingers. For light actions like a quick beat, you just make a very light, momentary squeeze. For stronger actions, you'll squeeze longer and with more force. In all cases the squeeze should only last as long as is minimally necessary, and then be relaxed again. With a french grip you can also shift the grip down in your hand a bit to get some more leverage on it; you can do the same with a pistol grip, too (but in either case, you don't want to get in the habit of doing it automatically since it does take more time). As you shift the grip down in the hand, you'll find that the pinkie and ring finger become more important because they've got the firmest contact with the grip. In a normal hand position, it's the middle and ring fingers that have the most purchase.
With a pistol grip, if you draw the arm way back into an infighting position, it's actually the side of the thumb (against the upper prong) and the pinkie that will be controlling things.

If you find that you're having to exert a lot of strength in opposition to an opponent's blade actions you may want to consider a yielding or derobing action for your part, instead of directly opposing it. A distance change to alter where your blades are meeting and give you more leverage is also important.

-Dave Neevel

[cathy a former fencer]

be an angel and ask you teacher

[Pommel]

I've been away from the board from a while, but 16 days ago Mr. Umbs posted that he felt the pinky was more important than the thumb in manipulating the french grip. I have to disagree, and go as far to say the proposition is ludicrous. Manipulation of any sort must, logically be accomplished by fingers applying pressure on opposing sides of the grip. That's just the way it works. If you have any problems with this fact direct your complaints to God. The pinkie is also among the weakest, and most useless of the fingers. Many older pictures of french foil fencers I have seen even show them holding the french grip with the pinkie finger off the grip itself. If you have some argument for the proposition I suggest you offer it. I would be interested to hear it.

[HilandDoug]

I gotta go with Chris on this one, just a bit. You gotta have that pinky help on the latteral moves of the blade, along with the wrist. I would drop the foil if I didn't have my pinky on a french grip. Wouldn't you, Pommel?

[Pommel]

I'm afraid I just can't find much use for the pinky. My principle question is just how one can be expected to manipulate a weapon with just the pinky and forefinger. The importance of the thumb is one I have rarely heard questioned. I would agree that the pinky has use for keeping the grip in the palm during violent actions, but I would hardly assert its importance over any of the other fingers in that or any other respect, and certainly not the manipulators.