Schools of Fencing

[jbenjamin]

I have heard a lot of things about the different schools of fencing, so now I wonder, "What are the different schools of fencing? what differentiates them from others?"

[KD5MDK]

Answering this will require approximately 300 posts.

There are as many schools of fencing as there are languages. However, due to regulation that even predates the FIE (and is thus written down as Appendix 0 to the rules), only one school per language is allowed. Hungarian, Russian, Polish, Italian and French schools have all be prominent in the past. The Serbo-Croatian school achieved temporary prominence, but it actually was a bunch of Italians who didn't want to follow the Italian school and so rented another language to prove their ideas. They were assimilated with the capture of Trieste in 1918.

The sleeper up and comer is the Sorbian school, being as it has the advantages of being in Germany but not actually German.

[ysbadadden]

Originally Posted by jbenjamin

I have heard a lot of things about the different schools of fencing, so now I wonder, "What are the different schools of fencing? what differentiates them from others?"

KD5's joking comment is basically riight: a "school" is a national, or sometimes a regional, style or tradition of fencing instruction. Frequently it is promulgated by nationally recognized institutions and recorded in widely accepted textbooks.

The following is offered tentatively and I invite correction by those who are more knowledgeable than I:

Naturally, the techniques taught tend to overlap, because obviously wrong actions don't work. But the terminology may differ, and there may be differences in the underlying philosophy.

From the Renaissance through the 19th century, there were the Spanish, Italian, and French schools. In the first part of the 20th c, there were distinct French and Italian schools, preferring different grips in the thrusting weapons, using different terminology, recommending different hand and en garde positions, and recognizing slightly different actions. There also developed a distinctive Hungarian school (developed from the Italian) in sabre. In addition, a Hungarian school in foil and epee seems to have combined French and Italian elements.

In the second half of the 20th century, East Bloc fencers introduced an eclectic school of fencing based on unpecented levels of physical training, with an emphasis on footwork. The success of this style led to its physical elements being adopted world-wide.

Today, the actual practice of high-level fencers tends to converge, although the different schools retain differences of terminology.

[LeftHanded]

Like ysbadadden said, a lot of the techniques are the same but have sleightly different execution. I know that the two big ones I hear about are French and Italian. Italian tends to rely on power and can be really big most of the time from what I have seen. The parries are a little bigger so that they not only move the blade but hit it out of the way completly.

The second is French style. I relys on smaller quicker actions and uses a more mehodical method and seems to be more tactical.

A second that I have heard mentioned is Russian which is basically beat fleche. Beat fleche. Beat fleche.

I am open to correction on these. I don't want to be posting bad info.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by LeftHanded

A second that I have heard mentioned is Russian which is basically beat fleche. Beat fleche. Beat fleche.

That is really OVER simplifying. My coach was trained in Kiev and I want you to know that we first learned the on-guard position and then then fleche.

[LeftHanded]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

That is really OVER simplifying.

Isn't there a proverb about a fool and his many words?

[Inquartata]

I resent that remark.

[Ormus]

Sadly I have never seen a competition fencer using one of these styles.

So what school would the modern style of fencing fall into? Freearms hanging like noodles, bent arm lunges, useless bouncing-around-footwork and no sense of distance?

[schlager7]

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

From the Renaissance through the 19th century, there were the Spanish, Italian, and French schools. In the first part of the 20th c, there were distinct French and Italian schools, preferring different grips in the thrusting weapons, using different terminology, recommending different hand and en garde positions, and recognizing slightly different actions.

In the 1930s most of the schools and clubs in the North Texas area taught the Spanish school of fencing...



Campeche Steel: A Sport Evolves

Campeche Steel: The Goodstein & D'Albergo Years

[chefencer]

Originally Posted by Ormus

Sadly I have never seen a competition fencer using one of these styles.

So what school would the modern style of fencing fall into? Freearms hanging like noodles, bent arm lunges, useless bouncing-around-footwork and no sense of distance?

Careful now...there's some loaded vocabulary in your post. I'd say it's pretty safe to say Cassara's Italian and Le Pechoux French...

I'd also say the definition of the various schools would most likely be decided by the most accomplished members of those schools...

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Ormus

Sadly I have never seen a competition fencer using one of these styles.

So what school would the modern style of fencing fall into? Freearms hanging like noodles, bent arm lunges, useless bouncing-around-footwork and no sense of distance?

Oh man you're a funny guy.

[jbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Ormus

Sadly I have never seen a competition fencer using one of these styles.

So what school would the modern style of fencing fall into? Freearms hanging like noodles, bent arm lunges, useless bouncing-around-footwork and no sense of distance?

hmmm.. Epee??? jk jk jk...

[telkanuru]

The American school of fencing is defined by crappy footwork.

(A. Abend, I believe)

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Ormus

Sadly I have never seen a competition fencer using one of these styles.

So what school would the modern style of fencing fall into? Freearms hanging like noodles, bent arm lunges, useless bouncing-around-footwork and no sense of distance?

Sorry that you don't consider "not being absolutely terrible because you want to conform to Victorian ideals" a valid approach to a sport.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Sorry that you don't consider "not being absolutely terrible because you want to conform to Victorian ideals" a valid approach to a sport.

The winner - it is you.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

The American school of fencing is defined by crappy footwork.

(A. Abend, I believe)

It makes you wonder where our successes come from...

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

It makes you wonder where our successes come from...

Bladework and speed. Watch the USA vs FRA epee team bout from the '04 olympics. The French tear us a new one on tempo and timing.

[Ormus]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

It makes you wonder where our successes come from...

So, does this mean that the purpose of fencing is to win...I was under the silly old "victorian" delusion that the purpose of fencing was to learn and practice the proper art of swordplay.

[jbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Ormus

So, does this mean that the purpose of fencing is to win...I was under the silly old "victorian" delusion that the purpose of fencing was to learn and practice the proper art of swordplay.

those were the days ... i see a lot of "Victorian-ish Swordplay" in foil though.. maybe you should join us if you haven't..

[Ormus]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Sorry that you don't consider "not being absolutely terrible because you want to conform to Victorian ideals" a valid approach to a sport.

You automatically assume that I consider fencing a sport. And further more, classical fencing style goes back much further than the Victorian period. As a matter of fact, the Victorian era is where dueling reached its steady decline.

Do you practice the lunge? Well the lunge was popularized by Ferro in the 14 century. I guess that makes all fencers stodgy and outdated? No, swordplay has adopted and held on to certain techniques for thousands of years, not because they are classic but because they worked when dueling with sharps. Just because certain methods and styles have been popularized within the last couple of decades doesn't make them part of the fencing canon. Modern fencing has never been a "popular" sport and never will be, it is not meant to be, because true fencing is much more than just a sport, it is an art.