Schools of Fencing

[RITFencing]

Oh, and on bouncing footwork: No, it is not necessary to bounce to achieve a fine control of distance and tempo. However, it is not necessary to eliminate bouncing to do the same. Either way can work just as well, and fencers of sufficient skill should make their own choice as to which they want to use when. So long as I have that control of distance and tempo, I frankly don't care how pretty I look on the strip.

As far as modern fencers having no sense of distance, I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

[Wafath]

It is not wrong to physically assault a director

In a dark parking lot, with a tire-iron, and no witnesses...

or turn your back and run away. The timing is what's important.

After the salute and hand-shake...

W

[RITFencing]

It is not wrong to physically assault a director or turn your back and run away. The timing is what's important.

Well, against some opponents and some refs....

[lemon__fresh]

Honour goes hand in hand with good sportsmanship and intelligence. The matter of honour as an ideal cannot be traced to any specific time period and especially not as late as the Victorian period. If any peiod were historically emblematic of honour it would be the Age of Chivalry. About 500 years prior to the Victorian period.

man, you really need to do some reading. It was all about kill or be killed back then. People would do ANYTHING TO WIN. umm cloak and dagger, grabbing a blade with the off hand. There was no rules or a code of honor like there is now. People started actually putting rules into dueling upon the emergence of the small sword(>1750) and has been stated many times. All this stuff about honor and most of the techniques classical fencers employ start from the time of the small sword.

This is also true for the current free arm position. Since when using a rapier the hand is held in front to block hits.

(I know its from ARMA but it proves my point):
http://www.thearma.org/Videos/RapierPlay09.avi

even the fencing you practice does not resemble this at all, you guys might as well incorperate wrestling techniques if you want to make it close to how ppl fenced "back then".

basically dont reference things prior to 1750's small sword fencing


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"Movement that is not necessary is useless. A concise fencer will out play an overactive fencer any day. I can maintain my distance just fine without jumping around like a monkey."

Rigggght, its called staying loose. You can also witness this phenominon in martial arts.

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but yea, lets not flame, lets discuss, its way more fun!!

[oiuyt]

Come at me with bent arm and you will meet my stop hit right in your bib! After a couple of bouts we will see if you still think a bent arm is a good attack.

So you'll let me, in foil, do a "bent arm attack", and you'll make a counter-attack to my bib? And you're willing to keep this up for a couple of bouts?

I assure you that, even after I have SEVERAL 5-0 or 15-0 victories I will still think my action is good. Oh, I might get bored and try to beat you some other way. Your losing badly is unlikely to change my opinion of the working action, however.

-B

[piste off]

I don't find this to be true, once a fencer has learned to relax in the position. This particular dictum is every bit as arbitrary as those the CFers spout.

And we both know a fencer, who is probably the most consistent performer in the US, who does it often (especially when in trouble, or against a lower level opponent).

One area that it can get you in trouble is loss of bout momentum. I was fencing and there was a very young ref presiding. The opponent was a beginner and I decided to go old-school (after seeing our friend above do it to great effect) and curled my back arm in the traditional position.

The ref kept calling halt. He would stare at me, and I back at him. Then he would say fence. This repeated several times until I realized that he thought I was asking for the action to stop by raising my back arm.

Rick

[RebelFencer]

I'm not going to really throw in an argument here since the CF-tard has been shut down in pretty much every area. But I do find it hilarious a) how proper he tries to make himself sound (almost every classical fencer that has trolled this forum has the same archaic writing style) and b) how his spelling of "honor" fluctuates according to how pompous he is trying to sound.

[Hauptman]

Let's cut to the chase here; this is an endless argument that CANNOT ever be won. I have been fencing for 25 years, worked with a variety of coaches from a variety of backgrounds including many years working with one of the most respected classical fencing coaches in the country. While there may be technical advantages to any particular style or technique, the differences are insignificant compared to the vast differences in fencers. How will we evaluate them effectively? Find multiple sets of identical twins, train each in a different school and then compare results?! It's obviously not practical. The key to any technique or style is to match it to the individual characteristics of the individual fencer and then to effectively train them in it. Any other argument is a waste of time. Someone trained to drive with an automatic transmission will drive better with an automatic transmission, someone trained to drive with a manual transmission with drive better with a manual.... it's not rocket science to make that correlation. IF you've trained in both then you can make an educated decision as to which technique works best for YOU. But any generalization beyond that is not supported. Individual physical and mental characteristics are far more significant than differences in technique or style.

[formerfencer]

Someone trained to drive with an automatic transmission will drive better with an automatic transmission, someone trained to drive with a manual transmission with drive better with a manual.... it's not rocket science to make that correlation. IF you've trained in both then you can make an educated decision as to which technique works best for YOU.

My car has an automatic transmission. It's not driving --- it's aiming.

[HDG]

There never was a CF vs Sport argument in this thread; the issue was someone coming throwing around some derogatory remarks about fencing as it is currently practiced, several regulars here firing back, and then the CF person getting his panties in a twist because we insulted him and lack hono(u)r.

[lemon__fresh]

Let's cut to the chase here; this is an endless argument that CANNOT ever be won. I have been fencing for 25 years, worked with a variety of coaches from a variety of backgrounds including many years working with one of the most respected classical fencing coaches in the country. While there may be technical advantages to any particular style or technique, the differences are insignificant compared to the vast differences in fencers. How will we evaluate them effectively? Find multiple sets of identical twins, train each in a different school and then compare results?! It's obviously not practical. The key to any technique or style is to match it to the individual characteristics of the individual fencer and then to effectively train them in it. Any other argument is a waste of time. Someone trained to drive with an automatic transmission will drive better with an automatic transmission, someone trained to drive with a manual transmission with drive better with a manual.... it's not rocket science to make that correlation. IF you've trained in both then you can make an educated decision as to which technique works best for YOU. But any generalization beyond that is not supported. Individual physical and mental characteristics are far more significant than differences in technique or style.

its still a very interesting argument, and why not let olympic fencers fence against classical fencers. Im sure we'd all learn alot (some more than others).

So let the debate continue!!!! Where are the Classical fencers when you need em...

[RebelFencer]

its still a very interesting argument, and why not let olympic fencers fence against classical fencers. Im sure we'd all learn alot (some more than others).

So let the debate continue!!!! Where are the Classical fencers when you need em...

That's the point, Classical Fencers won't try. Even in Epee, where the only real difference is the amount of touches they go to, the Classical Fencers cop out. Plus, the CF'ers don't even have a system in place to judge the "best" of them. Maybe if the AFA got out of the stone age and started making some strides a possibility of an interorganizational championship could be worked out.

[lemon__fresh]

That's the point, Classical Fencers won't try. Even in Epee, where the only real difference is the amount of touches they go to, the Classical Fencers cop out. Plus, the CF'ers don't even have a system in place to judge the "best" of them. Maybe if the AFA got out of the stone age and started making some strides a possibility of an interorganizational championship could be worked out.

that would be cool!!!

Yea, and it would prolly work best with Epee

[KD5MDK]

Specifically, you should do the latter after the bout has ended, and the former after the tournmanent. Or else we'll end up with another rescinded card.

[lemon__fresh]

bahhh our classical fencer friend is gone

although, maybe he is actually doing research this time, and preparing for his next assault!

[KD5MDK]

Specifically, you should do the latter after the bout has ended, and the former after the tournmanent. Or else we'll end up with another rescinded card.

Bah. The effect I intended to attain was ruined by my failure to observer page 3. Wafath beat me soundly too it, too.

[Ormus]

As far as modern fencers having no sense of distance, I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

Corps-a-corps is, at least, three times more common on the piste today as it was thirty years ago.

[Gav]

Corps-a-corps is, at least, three times more common on the piste today as it was thirty years ago.

And what's that got to do with anything?

[Phaeton]

I like my coffee black.

[Phaeton]

I like my coffee black.

Just trying to continue the trend that Ormus started of saying completely irrelevant things.

But seriously. If anyone ever feels like stealing coffee from the director's room after a competition, I would be eternally grateful.