Old Problem, New Explanation

[Inquartata]

Some time ago we had a long debate about the gender pay gap and its causes. I have looked and cannot find the thread; the argument may have begun as a divagation in a thread on another subject entirely, as so many do.

Anyway, here's an explanation of the differential that I have not seen before:

http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i7575.html

[Epee_Pox]

I actually have seen the main observation -- that women just don't negotiate salaries or even ask for raisese as often as men do -- made several times since the early 90s, but in sociological and business articles rather than economic ones. The earlier observations were no less empirical, but certainly lacked the analysis of effects over time. I'd be interested in reading the full study.

Anecdotally, I myself have seen this to be the case in my own work experience. Women just don't ask to be paid better. I don't know if it's because they're embarrassed to do it, or think it's rude, or just don't know how, but more often than not they just don't. And I work in a high-power field where the women are all tough go-getters.

In my personal life, too, I've noticed an odd disconnect between the things my wife and I feel comfortable asking for. I have no problem negotiating a better price for things and asking for more money, while my wife says she would never have even thought to have negotiated a better price, and would feel extremely uncomfortable asking for a raise. But this is the same strong woman who has no problem demanding better treatment for others, and who cannot understand why I don't think to just ask for directions. Why can I ask for a better deal, but it doesn't occur to me to ask for help, while the converse is true for her?

[Inquartata]

IWomen just don't ask to be paid better. I don't know if it's because they're embarrassed to do it, or think it's rude, or just don't know how, but more often than not they just don't.

Babcock has several explanations for this. One of her main ones is that men don't work as well with or for women who DO ask/negotiate. Whether it's because they resent the trait or because the trait accompanies other qualities in an overall personality style that creates resentment, I don't recall...

[keith]

Babcock has several explanations for this. One of her main ones is that men don't work as well with or for women who DO ask/negotiate. Whether it's because they resent the trait or because the trait accompanies other qualities in an overall personality style that creates resentment, I don't recall...

You can even go and google up the studies where 'aggressive' negotiation is viewed as a positive trait for men and a negative for women. I believe controlled anger/aggression fall (unsurprisingly) into the same category.

[chefencer]

Society uses childhood to set the norms for behavior for each gender and I'd say what stereotypically constitutes the behavior of a 'good' girl and a 'good' boy haven't really caught up with how the workplace is configured.

[remistress]

So, I liked the article. I'd like to see empirical evidence, however. I think the evidence so far is compelling, but I'm hesitant to jump full on-board with this idea. Sounds like most of the research getting has been done via voluntary polling, which can, as you folks probably know, skew the regression results. I did only skim through the article, so I appologize if I overtly misquote something. Also, does the empirical evidence take into account interaction variables with enough sample data for each? If not, you don't have a statistically accurate study.

We did someting similiar to this in econometrics (regressions, oh the regressions!), to determine the true cause of the income discrepancy using US Census data between males and females. Initially the discrepancy is statistically significant, holding all things constant. However, when one changed things such as socio-economic background, chosen major, area of residence, time, and the interactions therof...this figure became statistically insignificant. It was interesting to learn that regression analysis is oft-time used in court in sexual-harassment suits...and is oft-times misused. A lot of times the prosecutor has to prove that there is absolutely no other circumstances that could explain the difference in treatment besides discrimination.

In either case, I am a bit dodgy to say that this explains the gender gap, but that it has definate promise and would make a fascinating research study.

[lindajdunn]

I don't recall the name of the study and will have to do some serious Googling to find it again but when women DO ask, they're likely to be perceived in a negative light.

In one study, they used male and female candidates for a job to work with interviewers and the candidates were given scripts and monitored to insure there were no differences in behavior that could cause the different perception.

Overwhelmingly, men who were up front in job interviews about requesting a higher income were perceived favorably and women were perceived negatively.

The men in the study were more likely to be hired at the income level requested. The women were more likely to be passed over for another candidate.

So it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

This applies, of course, only to white collar job candidates.

[lindajdunn]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072900827.html

Their study, which was coauthored by Carnegie Mellon researcher Lei Lai, found that men and women get very different responses when they initiate negotiations. Although it may well be true that women often hurt themselves by not trying to negotiate, this study found that women's reluctance was based on an entirely reasonable and accurate view of how they were likely to be treated if they did. Both men and women were more likely to subtly penalize women who asked for more -- the perception was that women who asked for more were "less nice".

<snip>

The findings, published this year in the journal Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, help explain why some other studies have reached conflicting conclusions....

"It is not that women always act one way and men act another way; it tends to be moderated by situational factors," Bowles said. "The point of this paper is: Yes, there is an economic rationale to negotiate, but you have to weigh that against social risks of negotiating. What we show is those risks are higher for women than for men."

[chefencer]

Be a good little girl and do as your told...