Free the Texas Three and Secure US Borders

[fences_like_a_lemur]

http://patriotpetitions.us/borders/

This is a citizen petition calling on President Bush to commute the sentences of both former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, and their colleague, former Sheriff’s Deputy Guillermo Hernandez; asking Congress to insist that the DEA prosecute Mexican national Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila on felony drug-distribution charges; and demanding that Congress and the Bush administration secure our borders.

The three law enforcement officers were convicted for shooting an unarmed illegal alien and drug smuggler who had crossed the US/Mexican border. They were charged with causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, and a civil rights violation. While the three US law enforcement officers were incarcerated; Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila was given some compensation, a visa and was pardoned for smuggling hundreds if not thousands of pounds of illegal drugs across the border.

To read more about the petition; go to: http://patriotpetitions.us/intro.asp?id=19


It is not morally right to allow good men such as these border patrol officers to sit in jail for over ten years for doing their duty to keep our county safe from illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. If we are going to start arresting our own citizens who are standing up for their constitutional rights and who are protecting our rights as citizens; should we not also be arresting those people who break our laws and who are threating our country on so many different levels?

[Slim]

Originally Posted by fences_like_a_lemur

http://patriotpetitions.us/borders/

This is a citizen petition calling on President Bush to commute the sentences of both former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, and their colleague, former Sheriff’s Deputy Guillermo Hernandez; asking Congress to insist that the DEA prosecute Mexican national Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila on felony drug-distribution charges; and demanding that Congress and the Bush administration secure our borders.

The three law enforcement officers were convicted for shooting an unarmed illegal alien and drug smuggler who had crossed the US/Mexican border. They were charged with causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, and a civil rights violation. While the three US law enforcement officers were incarcerated; Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila was given some compensation, a visa and was pardoned for smuggling hundreds if not thousands of pounds of illegal drugs across the border.

To read more about the petition; go to: http://patriotpetitions.us/intro.asp?id=19


It is not morally right to allow good men such as these border patrol officers to sit in jail for over ten years for doing their duty to keep our county safe from illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. If we are going to start arresting our own citizens who are standing up for their constitutional rights and who are protecting our rights as citizens; should we not also be arresting those people who break our laws and who are threating our country on so many different levels?

Right on brother. I second your views on this.

[AndrewH]

I third.

(Slim and I agree on two things now, a sure sign of the apocalypse)

[Philistine]

I don't know.

They shot an unarmed, fleeing suspect in the back. They shot at him 15 times, and lied about it.

The length of their sentence was dictated by the harsh mandatory minimum sentences Congress has put in place, which scarcely raise comment when they are applied to others.

--Philistine

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by Philistine

They shot an unarmed, fleeing suspect in the back. They shot at him 15 times, and lied about it.

It said they only shot at him when he turned around.

Considering he's a drug smuggler from Mexico, with 746 pounds of marijuana in his car, I would say it would be fair to assume he was armed. If he ran away, then turned around, that would certainly present the threat of him pulling out a weapon and shooting at the officers.

Police shoot people they suspect to be armed when they go for their wallet. How is this any different?

[keith]

Originally Posted by Philistine

The length of their sentence was dictated by the harsh mandatory minimum sentences Congress has put in place, which scarcely raise comment when they are applied to others.

So the real problem here is the failure to impose double standards?

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

It said they only shot at him when he turned around.

What is the "it" you are referring to? The Doctor who testified said he could not tell one way or the other whether the suspect's body was twisted so as to point something backwards as he was running away.

The jury disbelieved the testimony from the defendants. Which makes sense, since they never mentioned to any of the other agents on the scene that they thought he had a gun, they picked up their brass from the scene and didn't report the shooting.

Considering he's a drug smuggler from Mexico, with 746 pounds of marijuana in his car, I would say it would be fair to assume he was armed.

Why? One of the agents testified that of the illegals he had caught, none of them had ever had a gun.

If he ran away, then turned around, that would certainly present the threat of him pulling out a weapon and shooting at the officers.

Or it might mean he was stopping. In any event, that issue, which was disputed, was apparently resolved by the jury against the Defendants.

Police shoot people they suspect to be armed when they go for their wallet. How is this any different?

Sometimes it's not. But among other things--those officers who are not charged generally report the incident, don't try to dispose of evidence against them at the scene, and tell others what happened immediately.

--Philistine

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by keith

So the real problem here is the failure to impose double standards?

That's my take on it.

It seems that for many people, it's only when someone who doesn't "look like a criminal" is convicted that there's any concern over overly harsh sentences or prosecutorial practices that they wouldn't raise an eyebrow over in an ordinary case. For other examples--the Scooter Libby case and the Duke lacrosse case.

--Philistine

[Inquartata]

And yet again we see the truth of the axiom that it is never the act that sinks you, it is the cover-up.

From my reading, the shooting was probably justified. The attempted cover-up made it look the opposite. And tough cases make bad law.

Maybe we should wait for the case to make its way through the appellate process ere we resort to the Executive. I think there was probably a bit in the way of error in the trial...

[fences_like_a_lemur]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

It said they only shot at him when he turned around.

Originally Posted by Philistine

Or it might mean he was stopping. In any event, that issue, which was disputed, was apparently resolved by the jury against the Defendants.

One thing with law enforcement officers; is that they have to make a split second decision that may result in the life of someone. If they are pursing an illegal immigrant who is also smuggling drugs; what is to say that he isn't going to be armed and shoot? He is already breaking federal laws and is fleeing arrest. There are multiple scenarios that could have unfolded. 1.) He might not be armed and might just be running away; when he turns back it might be to see how close his pursuers are. 2.) He might in fact be armed while running away. When he turns around he could be looking for a target to shoot at.

If the cops were to keep chasing him and he were to open fire; he could potentially kill one of them, or an innocent civilian bystander. If they fire, then the civilians should be safe from harm and hopefully the law enforcement officers will be safe. The officers are going to probably going to care more for and aim to protect US citizens over an illegal felon.

I do agree that it is wrong that they didn't report the whole incident; and they don't have a good excuse for that; but to allow the felon to get away? And to give him a visa at that?

Our borders are already dangerous enough, and we are already considering giving all the current illegal immigrants visas...doing something like this is just going to encourage more people to enter our country illegally. And is also going to make our borders even less safe. We as a country seem so afraid of another terrorist attack from the Al Qaeda and yet we leave our border open...inviting them to just waltz right across the border and into the US.

We need honourable politicians...

~Lemur

[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by fences_like_a_lemur

[url]It is not morally right to allow good men such as these border patrol officers to sit in jail for over ten years for doing their duty to keep our county safe from illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. If we are going to start arresting our own citizens who are standing up for their constitutional rights and who are protecting our rights as citizens; should we not also be arresting those people who break our laws and who are threating our country on so many different levels?

Patriotism is not some saving grace that wipes all traces of culpability. Neither is being an upright member of the community. While no one is supporting the trafficking of illegal drugs into the country, the reality is that the patrol officers made a mistake, and now have to face the consequences.

This reminds me of comic book villain Nuke (also known as Frank Simpson). While he is not per say a bad person with evil motives, his actions don't exactly help people out, and he has to be restrained or stopped from destroying the general populace and killing innocents. The path to hell is paved with good intentions.

The fact that someone is an upstanding member of the community doesn't change the fact there are laws and they are to be followed. Letting someone off on their virtousness only allows for a large amount of grey area that can be exploited.

If the States really wanted to be doing something about the flow of illegal drugs we'd actually try and put our hand down on the production in places that we are in military control of. Either way there are plenty of terrorist connections in the United States already. The border patrol isn't doing all that much to keep Al Quaeda from blowing us to neat little bits. To think so is to insult the intelligence and capability of a formidible organization.

Shooting mexicans won't help stop a large islamic terrorist organization will it?

If you think the law has problems, change the law. For everyone. Officers should live if anything to stricter standards than the public.

I am, however, somewhat uncomfortable with holding a public trail. I don't think that the community is qualified to asses guilt and wrong doing in situations such as this and should be done by an internal court much like a police review or military tribunal.

[Inquartata]

Hmm...

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_...?id=1369&mid=0

There have been studies demonstrating that many subjects struck in the back by police officers were in fact whirling around just as the officer fired. So apparently that he was facing them when the BP officers shot him is very feasible.

He escaped initially, so there's no way to know whether he was armed at the time or not. But surely "they never carry guns" is not very overwhelming evidence that he was not...

[fatfencer]

I think that anyone who violates the sovereign boundaries of these United States should be forcibly stopped. IF Bpatrol or National Guard catches anyone trying to invade our territory we should do what other with smaller border do daily. Shoot them.

We have a process for entry into this country. Those laws NEED to be enforced harshly until the Mexicans and others who have a penchant for violating one of the key aspects of a nation state(eixstence of and enforcement of boundaries) learn their lesson.

The lesson is simple. Use an application. Just because we have it better over here doesn't give someone the right to take what we have by violating our highest laws and using our taxpayer dollars to subsidize their lifestyle.

If you are not a citizen or otherwise legally able to remain here, you should be bodily escorted by our National Guard/BP to the Border and warned very strongly never to return unless you return with a successful immigration application.

Norway has a wonderful slogan... 'Norway... for Norwegians!" They understand what it means to be a Citizen, a fraternal member of a coutnry under a social contract. If you aren't a citizen or visa holder you do not need to be in the US.

This sentiment is by NO MEANS relegated only to the Mexicans though they are the most flagrant violators. The Cubans, the Chinese, Vietnamese and any other group or individual with a tendency to violate our borders needs to be dealt with SEVERELY.

I am EXTREMELY proud to be a Citizen. If you go thru the process to become one successfully or are one by birth then you are, like in any fraternity, a brother or sister. Welcome. Let's break bread together.

If not. You need to get the BLEEP out of my country. I'm too proud of it to let you stay and burden our medical care system, our welfare system, our citizens. I'm too proud to let you force our schools to go bilingual. Our language is ENGLISH. LEARN IT. Why is it we citizens have to kowtow to the needs of the illegal? This is true in no other civilized country but our. Immigrants usually try to assimilate and not become a burden.

We have our own poor and destitute folk we need to deal with. We don't need you.

When you are done picking our vegetables.. go home. Don't stay.

Fatfencer

PS: People caught trafficking marijuana or other drugs into the US should be shot on sight if they aren't citizens. The ones that are should face high, high penalties. BLEEP the cover up. Feed their carcasses to the coyotes. They should have been trumpeting to the world that the US is finally nutting up to protect its southern border.

PPS: State Governors who knowingly shelter or bypass immigration law by granting citizenship to 1500+ illegals should be Federally prosecuted for harboring illegals. What a cheapening of what it means to be a US citizen.