Doping in fencing

[Carlos37]

Has there been any case of doping in fencing throughout its history?

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Carlos37

Has there been any case of doping in fencing throughout its history?

define "case of doping".

have people been carded out of a tournament because of violations of the doping rules? yes.

has there been a doping scandal where the people (or a single person) at the top have been caught using performance enhancing drugs to do win? no, not that i know of.

most of the cases i know of doping, at least in america, have typically been cases of people using other "illegal substances".

[Peach]

A test for level of hangover might produce results in some events. The only doping suspensions I've known of have been, as noodle says, for illegal drugs that tend not to enhance performance (meth, for instance), OR for over-the-counter cold medicines that fencers took without knowing they were restricted.

[lemon__fresh]

fencing intoxicated when count as well i think

[dekko]

When someone has failed a drug test usually 'the card' is given after the fact as there are usually no testing services onsite.

I know of one fencer that had their result nullified from an international event a few years ago and no I will not give their name.

Right now the only events tested are D1, Junior and Cadet, I think. The interesting thing to do would be test the other events, D2, D3, etc.

It really wouldn't matter as there is no test for HGH which most high level folks are taking, at least in other sports. The only way to find HGH is a blood test and the USOC only does a piss test. If Victor Conti ever gets rolling again we could have a different cream/clear product to use that could not be detected.

Bottomline, there may already be fencers taking this stuff, HGH, and no one would ever know due to the lack of testing and type of testing.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by dekko

Right now the only events tested are D1, Junior and Cadet, I think. The interesting thing to do would be test the other events, D2, D3, etc.

The rationale for the events where they do test is that they are qualifiers for World Championships.

Why cheat in D2, etc? Classifications are not that hard to get.

Consideration is given to Vets for substances that are prescribed for age-related conditions.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by dekko

Right now the only events tested are D1, Junior and Cadet, I think. The interesting thing to do would be test the other events, D2, D3, etc.

Hellaciously expensive. It can cost plenty to drug-test athletes, and no one is likely to do that for an event where a national team spot is not at stake.

As for Vets, what I understand from the last time is they just don't bother to test us any more (again, a cost issue and besides very few vets, especially the older category, AREN'T on medications of some type).

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Peach

Hellaciously expensive. It can cost plenty to drug-test athletes, and no one is likely to do that for an event where a national team spot is not at stake.

As for Vets, what I understand from the last time is they just don't bother to test us any more (again, a cost issue and besides very few vets, especially the older category, AREN'T on medications of some type).

There has been testing for Vets several times.

It was sprung on us like the day before the events started in Martinique, an overseas Department of France, in 2001. We were told there would be no punishment for any substance that was reported before the events started.

There was testing in Tampa in 2002. This was a major budget buster for the organizing committee.

There was testing in Limoges, France, in 2003.

I was told it is a National law in France that there must be testing for any athletic event comparable to a World Championship. Thus the testing in Martinique and Limoges.

The Championships will be back in Limoges, France, in 2008. So expect there will be testing again. Specially after the fiascos associated with the just completed cycling Tour-de-France.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I know of atleast one recent US foil fencer who flunked one on.... pot.

There are a few more who tested positive for cannabis, one who tested positive for pseudophedrine

Laura Flessel tested positive for Nikethamide, which is a stimulant that effects the respiratory system.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

I'm curious how they test for real "blood doping," where the athlete themselves have a pint or two of their own blood withdrawn at least a month before a competition and then have it re-injected just before the competition, increasing their oxygen-carrying red blood cells? This method, while very effective, does not use "performance enhancing drugs."

Any medico types here know whether they typically "preserve" the blood with a chemical which can be detected when it is transfused?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by Peach

illegal drugs that tend not to enhance performance (meth, for instance)

I wouldn't write off any amphetamine quite so quickly--- In the doses used to get high, the cons outweigh the pros (paranoia is especially bad when the person in front of you really is out to get you....).

In smaller doses? HUGE benefits (if you know the right dosage).

This is the game that any fencer with ADD and a prescription plays, especially those with ADD in school. It's not illegal for practice, but it is illegal for competition. (It may not be illegal in the NCAA, I looked into it a while ago, but since it doesn't affect me, I've forgotten the details. Everywhere else? Nope.). And for those of us with ADD, it really is a performance enhancer. And it's a lot easier to not over-medicate when you have ADD than when you don't and are taking a stimulant anyway.

[KD5MDK]

All those Epee successes she talks about...

Hmm, MyrddinsPrecint, the fencing Floyd Landis?

[whtouche]

Wasn't brendan myers banned from the USFA or FIE for a year for drugs?

[teacup]

Originally Posted by lemon__fresh

fencing intoxicated when count as well i think

Actually according to the 2007 Prohibited list on the FIE website alcohol is not prohibited in fencing competitions. It is only prohibited in the following sports: Aeronautic, archery, automobile, boules, karate, Modern Pentathalon for disciplines involving shooting, motorcycling and powerboating.
http://fie.ch/Fencing/Doping.aspx
Page 10 on the 2007 Prohibited list.



[HDG]

Originally Posted by teacup

Actually according to the 2007 Prohibited list on the FIE website alcohol is not prohibited in fencing competitions. It is only prohibited in the following sports: Aeronautic, archery, automobile, boules, karate, Modern Pentathalon for disciplines involving shooting, motorcycling and powerboating.
http://fie.ch/Fencing/Doping.aspx
Page 10 on the 2007 Prohibited list.

?

USFA prohibits it: t.129 & t.130.

[teacup]

Originally Posted by HDG

USFA prohibits it: t.129 & t.130.

I can understand the dangers of drinking while competing in motorized sports and have heard alcohol used as an enhancement drug in shooting and don't get me wrong I am not promoting the use of alcohol while fencing, but I wouldn't call it a performance enhancement drug for fencing.

Alcohol laws are different all over the world which is probably why it isn't on the FIE list for banned substances.

So at world cups, does the USFA do additional tests for substances not prohibited by the FIE? Are there other substances on the USFA list not banned by the FIE? Just curious.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by teacup

I can understand the dangers of drinking while competing in motorized sports and have heard alcohol used as an enhancement drug in shooting and don't get me wrong I am not promoting the use of alcohol while fencing, but I wouldn't call it a performance enhancement drug for fencing.

Alcohol laws are different all over the world which is probably why it isn't on the FIE list for banned substances.

So at world cups, does the USFA do additional tests for substances not prohibited by the FIE? Are there other substances on the USFA list not banned by the FIE? Just curious.

According to t.129 alcohol is banned pursuant to FIE rules ("the FIE has determined that both alcohol and cannibinoids shall be prohibited in competition"); if the FIE no longer prohibits it, this might disappear from the forthcoming USFA rules.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

All those Epee successes she talks about...

Hmm, MyrddinsPrecint, the fencing Floyd Landis?

Any doping practices I engage in--- Like when I take ritalin for an exam midweek and then fence that weekend (where I plan to take ritalin, and then forget) have remained constant in between sabre and epee.

For the record, I hate taking ritalin. I do it, when I remember, especially for school things (like this week when we're writing and rewriting at least 20 pages worth of proofs)....

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old

Any medico types here know whether they typically "preserve" the blood with a chemical which can be detected when it is transfused?

An article about blood doping from a few years ago: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6456

Apparently, "blood doping" covers more than just transfusions of your own blood. They could test for the other kinds, but they were still working on tests to detect that type of blood doping.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

I wouldn't write off any amphetamine quite so quickly

For those of us with ADHD (myself included) caffeine is an excellent performance enhancer, serving to settle me down and help me focus, and amphetamines might serve the same purpose for someone with an attention disorder. For those who don't have such a disorder, amphetamines don't work well for fencing because it's better to be relaxed and focused than fast. I remember when an epeeist I knew was sanctioned for methamphetamines and Michael Massik was quoted in the press as saying, "It's not a performance enhancer in our sport."

Blood doping and other such techniques are specific to sports like cycling and running where you have a high endurance component, and other drugs for sports where you have a premium on strength. Fencing's endurance demands are not really all that high compared to some sports, nor are the demands on strength.

As for drug testing: I remember how expensive it was in Tampa, and how inconvenient, but then they didn't do it the next time it was in Tampa and they didn't do it in Bath. I'll deal with it in Limoges if I have to, but it's annoying to have to get the medical release form for the asthma inhaler I almost never use. Bah.