Mom needs to vent

[Neinteen]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Practice device? Maybe not. Fun? You betcha! It's a pretty good party game, although I've mostly seen it for saber. You tape a set number of balloons to the target area (so, in theory, you can adapt it to any weapon), and then you try to pop all the other kid's balloons while parrying and moving to protect your own.

You can do it as a duel. It's also a great deal of fun as a melee...where you release everyone at once, and then watch the defensive pairing (and backstabbing) develop. For the point weapons, you probably need to tape the balloons down pretty well, or the game will last forever.

Absolutely imperative that full protective gear be worn, masks fit well, and in saber, hitting the top-o-the-mask balloon from behind is an auto-DQ and strictly forbidden.

As a sabre, just go insane swinging that sword around and ta da you win.

as epee, baloons on feet!

as foil pfft. Balloon chest peice!

[fencerwallet]

Actually, my son's coach who did a lesson on one knee was not condescending, at all. He is a perfectionist and demands precision with everything, and it allowed him to show proper technique. He is a fantastic coach with incredible results (I believe your daughter is familiar with him).

Originally Posted by Mo

I've been in clubs where there are younger kids who can fence in slightly higher age groups. If the kids, male or female are intentionally hitting hard, it is the responsibility of the coach to tell them to cut the crap. Unfortunately, many of them won't.

None of that nonsense is tolerated at my son's club (because that is not fencing). But it happens all the time during tournaments. This last SN my son got hit on the back of the head 3 times and once with a guard on the side of the mask. Like I said, it is very different with girl's events than boys events. The girls rely more on their fencing prowess such that an 11 year old girl who is highly skilled can outfence a 16 year old girl in a cadet event. In contrast, 16 year old boys with less fencing skill nevertheless try to win by "clubbing" and physically overpowering their younger opponent (malparry) and thus a younger but more skilled male fencer still has a hard time due to the sheer difference in physicality and size. It's just a reality.

As far as success being the "best revenge", I agree wholeheartedly. True competitors, regardless of age, somehow inherently know this.

[hpfencing]

Have you talked to the coach one on one about it? Maybe the coach will say something to your youth to help fix the situation or maybe it'll make the coach aware so that he/she will not make the same mistake with the next youth!

[remistress]

Hmmm.... so it sounds like the "coach" isn't actually teaching the class. That might bear some consideration. If the coach doesn't feel the need to bring fencers up from the lower level, how does he expect the basics to be properly instilled? I can understand if there was one instructor who was very mature and a good teacher...but with three, how can you expect continuity of coaching style??? Don't know if college kids have enough life experience to deal with quite that breadth of age ranges, too.

That being said, there are pros and cons to the big group kids classes. What is the dynamic of the class? Are the older kids buddying up with the younger kids, making sure they don't get lost in the fray? Is there a good amount of respect among students? I'm guessing your little guy thinks it's cool to be with the big kids, and that's part of the reason he was a little crushed by the coach's insensitive comment. Did the coach say it in front of the other kids?

I agree with the other posters...if the coach, after speaking with him, didn't take your concerns seriously, he isn't a good coach. If your little guy is as resiliant as he seems....a good coach could make him into a fantastic fencer (and that might be worth 40 mi. ).

[dcmdale]

Sports parents wear many hats. They are the "credit card." They are the "taxi." They are the shoulder to cry on.

Too often, particularly in fencing it seems, a role that some parents forget is to be the protector. There are too many coaches in this sport that make Bobby Knight look sensitive and compassionate. By the same token, I am always shocked at parents who sit and watch their kid shredded mercilessly--attacking them as a fencer, a person, an embarrassment to their club. And often it doesn't make any difference what the kid did. I have seen beratings like that where kids beat someone way over their head or took gold in an event and should be celebrating.

Part of the role of a parent is to know what is going on and what is best for your child. The role of a coach *is* to help your child develop: as a fencer, as a person, whatever. As your child develops, the coach needs to be able to convey honestly things that your child may not want to hear: things they need to work on, attitudes that need to be corrected, work ethics that need to be improved, and so forth. Your kid may not like everything that is said. You will need to back the coach on some things. Sometimes even when you aren't sure they are true. But at the end of the day it is your call whether things are continuing in a constructive manner. I have twice pulled my kids out of sports that they were enjoying because of the coaching.

From your report, it is hard to know what the coach was thinking. He could have been having a bad day. He could have been thinking, "Hey, I like this kid and I would have recommended that his parents wait 2 months until I introduce him to electrical." Or he could be an insensitive clod. Your call.

I second the vote for kicking Dad out of couch potato status. This isn't a sport that lends itself to uninvolved parents. Maybe you can get him into a class?

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by dcmdale

Sports parents wear many hats. They are the "credit card." They are the "taxi." They are the shoulder to cry on.

Too often, particularly in fencing it seems, a role that some parents forget is to be the protector. There are too many coaches in this sport that make Bobby Knight look sensitive and compassionate. By the same token, I am always shocked at parents who sit and watch their kid shredded mercilessly--attacking them as a fencer, a person, an embarrassment to their club. And often it doesn't make any difference what the kid did. I have seen beratings like that where kids beat someone way over their head or took gold in an event and should be celebrating........I second the vote for kicking Dad out of couch potato status. This isn't a sport that lends itself to uninvolved parents. Maybe you can get him into a class?

This is such a great post!

I remember when we moved and my kiddo started school in a new state...I bucked the 'system' a few times, stood up for my kid (and by doing so, made life better for every kid) and the other moms were aghast...how dare I go against the teacher, principal, etc. My answer- "I am my child's advocate. Until he is 18, and of legal age, or mature enogh to handle things on his own, I am the one to do it. It's in the Parent Manual".

As for kicking Dad off the couch-AMEN! As someone else posted-Family is a team sport. From experience, I've seen what happens when both parents don't support and encourage. It is so hard on the fencer (and the Fencing Parent). And when the fencer starts to compete regionally and nationally, you'll need both parents. What if Mom can't be out of town and Dad has to take kiddo to a tournament? If you know nothing about what's going on, it will be a disaster until Fencer is old enough to handle it on his/her own.

We're behind ya Nicks Mom!!!

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Phincer

This is such a great post!

I remember when we moved and my kiddo started school in a new state...I bucked the 'system' a few times, stood up for my kid (and by doing so, made life better for every kid) and the other moms were aghast...how dare I go against the teacher, principal, etc. My answer- "I am my child's advocate. Until he is 18, and of legal age, or mature enogh to handle things on his own, I am the one to do it. It's in the Parent Manual".

We're behind ya Nicks Mom!!!

Phincer and DMC I am so glad that other parents know what is in the parent's manual. I have had to fight for my child on so many ocassions.

My daughter is now 17 and is finally beginning to stand up for herself. It is wonderful to see. I am still there for her. I still travel with her too. I was told over and over again that I should not be going over seas with her. If my hub or I didn't go, she would not go either.

As I have said many times before, if a coach at a club is telling you not to travel with your kids, do not believe them. It is an alarm that should go off.

Watch over them and fight for them when necessary. And as DMC says, never let a coach belittle your child. I cannot believe for one minute that any seriously competitive fencer would choose to loose a competition and fence like crap. That is idiotic, yelling at a fencer after losing just adds insult to injury.

I love this parent's corner!
The Momster

[Nicksmom]

I am so excited about being able to ask questions and get good, honest and useful answers. So many times at activities I feel that I'm being looked at like I have ten heads. Maybe it's just me but I have a problem with 8 years old little girls standing on very busy corners selling cookies at rush hour. Yet, when I mentioned it I was a "bad mom" because was questioning the leader. (Rachel wasn't in that troop long.) And now with Nick. I am the only one looking out for my child and by golly I'm gonna take care of him.
Thanks you guys so much.
Brianna

And yes KL, I'm contacting the guys in Grand Rapids, so you can stop the coughing.

[fatfencer]

There's lots of great fencing advice on this forum. Some great advice about coaching, equipment, methods/styles of fencing, and even news about famous fencers, current and past.

Stay on the forum and enjoy!

Fatfencer

PS: It's tough being a newbie fencing mom/purse/taxidriver/savvy shopper, etc.

[ChamorroZorro]

This story is sooo terrible! I have a young son due next month, and I'd never let our coach talk to him like that. All it takes at that age is a really bad traumatic experience to ruin fencing and not make it fun anymore. I hope he hasn't lost motivation to fence because of this.

You should make your coach apologize to Nick if he wants your business. If there's another fencing club in the area, I'd look into someone who will treat even beginning fencers with respect.

[fencing freakster]

I just wanna say that reading this entire post makes me feel so much better about fencing and the people in it. I have been sick to my stomach lately as my daughter LOVES fencing and wants to spend all of our money and family's time doing it....and I have seen some creeps and some crappy stuff that makes me wanna run away or squash her dream which makes me sick and sad to think about......but the people giving out advice and input on this here post seem loving and caring and child centered, which whew...is a breath of fresh air!!!
Cheers,
a relieved yet tired freakster..............

[lefty_monster]

Freakster,

Don't worry. Looking around at national tournaments, yeah there are weirdos and creeps and disagreeable characters. But the majority of fencers are good, friendly people who just want to fence and advance the sport.

[fencerwallet]

Originally Posted by fencing freakster

I just wanna say that reading this entire post makes me feel so much better about fencing and the people in it. I have been sick to my stomach lately as my daughter LOVES fencing and wants to spend all of our money and family's time doing it....and I have seen some creeps and some crappy stuff that makes me wanna run away or squash her dream which makes me sick and sad to think about......but the people giving out advice and input on this here post seem loving and caring and child centered, which whew...is a breath of fresh air!!!
Cheers,
a relieved yet tired freakster..............

Really, kids will encounter and are going to have to learn to deal with all types of people, whether it is an obnoxious coach or a biased teacher. It is the parent that has to work to put negative events into context for them, and if possible turn them into positives. Especially as they get older, there is a fine line to be drawn between sheltering a child and letting them exert themselves to overcome a situation. My son plays other organized sports in addition to fencing, and at his tender age he has had to deal with adversity, slights, obnoxious coaching, unfair situations and other "crappy stuff". I would like to believe that our careful parenting through, rather than removing him from, these potentially damaging situations resulted in his working harder and overcoming them. He has emerged as a much more confident kid who as a result of (to him) hard lessons believes in himself, the power of hard work/dedication, and his ability to overcome adversity.

[dcmdale]

Originally Posted by fencerwallet

Really, kids will encounter and are going to have to learn to deal with all types of people, whether it is an obnoxious coach or a biased teacher. It is the parent that has to work to put negative events into context for them, and if possible turn them into positives. Especially as they get older, there is a fine line to be drawn between sheltering a child and letting them exert themselves to overcome a situation. My son plays other organized sports in addition to fencing, and at his tender age he has had to deal with adversity, slights, obnoxious coaching, unfair situations and other "crappy stuff". I would like to believe that our careful parenting through, rather than removing him from, these potentially damaging situations resulted in his working harder and overcoming them. He has emerged as a much more confident kid who as a result of (to him) hard lessons believes in himself, the power of hard work/dedication, and his ability to overcome adversity.

This is one of those philosophy of life/parenting kinds of questions where some parents go to either extreme and most of us find ourselves somewhere in the middle. Do I want my kid to deal with adversity? Absolutely. Do I want my kid to realize that when you are paying for a service, you have more control over situations? Again, absolutely. Where I hope my kids grow is in understanding how I evaluate courses of action, what things I consider important enough to take action on, might approach to resolving potentially emotional disagreements, etc.

Some situations are slam dunks. I am not going to pay a coach that is more interested in flirting with the teenage girls than coaching them. I also am not going to get rid of a coach for telling my kid to "stop chatting and fence or go home" -- even if it hurts her feelings. Between, the easy cases there are a variety of much harder responses. We always talk with our kids about what our thinking is and why we responded one way or another. And, honestly, sometimes we make the wrong decision (at least one that would have come out differently with more thinking or more information). We talk about that too.

[4qtrs]

Well said Fencerwallet!

[fencerwallet]

Originally Posted by dcmdale

We always talk with our kids about what our thinking is and why we responded one way or another. And, honestly, sometimes we make the wrong decision (at least one that would have come out differently with more thinking or more information). We talk about that too.

This point is exactly right. Talking it out is key. I don't necessarily want to relate the "other sport" incident I referenced in my prior post, but I believe when my son is middle age, he will still point back to that particular event as one of those life-altering moments.

[Zelda]

Hiya - what that coach said wasnt good. From a coaching PoV (yes all those of you who know me can stop laughing now), its probably the worst thing the coach could have done and well done to your boy for not taking it too much to heart.
I teach a small group of kids we can have anything from 6-15 depending on when it is and current interest levels. Age ranges are 6 to 13 with the ocassional older student. I alternate with another coach as I still want to fence and compete - however both of us try to make it fun and enjoyable for the kids and when we are coaching we are FULLY involved in coaching - not just "supervising".
Good luck with finding something that fits what your Nick wants to do.

[TBean]

I have read the entire post and think what the coach said was insensitive. You did nothing wrong - you got him perfectly appropriate equipment for a beginner. This is one of those life lessons that hurts us as parents to have to see our kids go through - they need to learn that people, including their fencing coach, can be like that. We cannot shield our kids from everything and you helped him though this moment. The good thing is it sounds like Nick's excitement remains high as does his enjoyment of the sport.

What I would be concerned about is the age-gap of this class - 6+ - including high schoolers - yikes. While an experienced teen would be able to handle themselves appropriately with a very young fencer on the strip or in drills, a beginner can not. They do not know enough or have enough control to do so - they could very easily hurt a young fencer inadevertently. How awful would everyone feel then.

With as much fun as Nick is having, you may want to explore the feasibility of the another club where he would be fencing with his peers. The social aspect is important - especially if he remains in the sport. It would be nice to have a peer group that is going through the same things as he is in terms of training and competitions.

Another alternative is to see if Nick could convince a couple of his buddies to join the class too. Create his own peer group at this club.

[hpfencing]

[quote=TBean;597076]
With as much fun as Nick is having, you may want to explore the feasibility of the another club where he would be fencing with his peers. The social aspect is important - especially if he remains in the sport. It would be nice to have a peer group that is going through the same things as he is in terms of training and competitions.

[quote]

great idea!