Correcting students positions without touching?

[jessicasimpson]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

I am a touchy-feely person. I don't think twice about hugging my students (who are often very young) especially after they have done well in a competition or have been injured. Nor do I give it a second thought when I try and get them in the correct position.

Mind you... being female and having very young students have a lot to do with this. I treat teens and adults completely different.

maybe you should not point out that you are from cougar country

[Openeyes]

Ugh!

I'm frustrated that this is even a topic, but as a coach and a father, it sadly must be discussed.

I think most of what can be done to minimize risk of lawsuits etc. has been mentioned prior, and I use some of these techniques myself, but I do worry about my own maestro who's of a different generation (69 yrs old.) and of a different (european) culture.

Our club has a large youth program with upscale, conservative parents. As their children's primary instructor I've gotten more than a few glances from parents when my maestro (the club owner) does or says something that doesn't quite fit with sensitive American parents. He's never done anything (nor is he the type of person) that should create real concern, and I smooth things over, but I do worry that someday I'm going to have to post bail for my near seventy year old maestro when a parent has a bad day and decides he needs to sue someone.

As a parent myself, I've become a bit more conservative on this issue myself, but still it seems we live with a tension that just shouldn't need to be.

[forethought]

I've found myself having to do it quite a bit this semester in my classes, and usually I'll use my blade to tap their foot or heel (as this is one of the most common errors). The only time I use my hand to touch a student is if they appear to be having trouble with parry positions, so I will first demonstrate the position, and if they still seem to have trouble, I will command them to en garde and lightly grasp their hand and move it into the correct position(s) while saying, "Here's your en garde...here's four (or six, mostly)...en garde...four..." etc.

Other than that, I mainly use demonstrations and positive reinforcement with suggested improvements.

[CaptChris]

I've always been cautious about this very area.

It has been defined that the sword is an extension of the hand, so even if you correct a pupil with the sword (moving their arm/foot etc) it is classed as physical contact.

I've always tried to make sure that I've corrected pupils with finger tips and at arms length. No close physical contact (which I'm sure is obvious to you all), ensures that pupils are aware of what you're doing and why you're doing it. I have been increasingly involved with juniors (U18) but am also aware that there are adults who feel uncomfortable with physical contact.

As long as there is a clear, "fencing" reason for doing things, there should be little or no problems.

Plus there are always at least 6 different adults around at any one time.

[Rick Thompson]

CaptChris wrote:

It has been defined that the sword is an extension of the hand, so even if you correct a pupil with the sword (moving their arm/foot etc) it is classed as physical contact.

By whom? If we're discussing legal definitions, I'm not sure that one would hold up in any court.

If we were discussing abusive behavior (hitting, etc), it might be considered "physical," but we're not talking about actions like the "old school" sabre coach who whacks to the leg when something is wrong.

[CaptChris]

Originally Posted by Rick Thompson

CaptChris wrote:


By whom?

I attended a Child Protection Seminar over here in the UK. I think it was defined by our NGB.

[fleshbroiler]

I have studied and taught Japanese and Chinese martial arts for over 30 years, and every teacher I have ever worked with used a very "hands on" approach with every student regardless of age or gender. My own teaching style reflects this and I find it a bit strange that this might pose a problem, given the nature of the activity. I have never heard of a parent reacting negatively to the physical contact inherent to the teaching process, but our youngest students were at least 10 or so.

My fencing coach uses both his weapon and hand to make adjustments in students' posture and it all seems pretty natural to me.

A student or parent of a student has to accept that some contact is inevitable and is indeed part of the teaching/learning process.

This may come off unduly harsh, but if I had a student that was that skittish about contact, I would talk to them about choosing another school.

[Adler]

There are 3 main ways of correcting a student directly which are verbally, manually and with the blade or any combination of the above.
Manual correction should only be used above the waist and correction with the blade should generally be used below the waist whilst verbal correction can be used all over.

The most effective way in my opnion is to use a combination of several methods i.e correcting the students hand position manually whilst explaining the reasoning behind the correction.

No matter which form of correction the coach choses to use it should never be brutal or lead to the fencer tensing up.

[Medinilla]

I normally use my weapon, as my masters did to me, but sometimes is necessary for me to touch them, i try to avoid touching, anything other than the arm and the shoulder, and in case i abosulutelly need to touch their legs, to put then into the right possition, i ask their permission.
Up until now no one has had a problem.