Coping with / Preventing Heel damage

[needle]

I need something to blame. Please.

Fencing practice two weeks ago. Gym with soft floors. I'm wearing LP shoes, plastic heel protector inside, two pairs of socks (gym socks and soccer sock on top) provide a lot of padding. On one of the lunges I feel sharp pain in the heel of my front foot (right where it rounds). Finished practice pretty much bouncing on my toes and abstaining from lunges. Limped home.

A doctor visit and a couple of xrays later the diagnosis is "deep bone bruise". According to the doctor "it will heal in 2-4 weeks, you don't have to stop practicing, if you can stand the pain".

WTF??? I thought I did everything possible to prevent this from happening and now I'm going to limp for several more weeks, it hurts just to walk.

Any advice on how to limp back into practice without causing further pain/damage, and avoid similar things in the future?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

.... I like the Stabils because they have a lot more padding than your standard fencing shoe.

But honestly, it sounds like there might be other problems. Do you have flat feet or particularly high arches? Planter Fascitiis? Achilles issues? Other feet/ankle/calf/knee issues???

[noodle]

it happens. lunge softer. don't drill your heel into the ground. aim for more of a roll of the foot step, instead of a bang-flop kind of step, if that makes sense.

[Allen Evans]

You haven't said anything about any other activities you engage in, how fit you are, or how much you weigh. All of these might be a factor.

It sounds like you are well protected in the shoe/sock department.

However, as Noodle points out, when you suffer a sudden injury (as opposed to an over-use injury) it's always a good idea to look at your technique. I watch a lot of fencers lunge -- or even worse HEAR them lunge from across the room -- and I wonder how they are still walking after a night's practice.

If you are landing hard on the heel of the front foot, and letting that be the stimulus for dropping the toe to finish the lunge, it certainly could be a cause of your problem. Especially if someone can hear you lunge from more than a few feet away, you might be "slapping" the foot down too hard.

For right now? It's August. Take a break, and when you can stand to lunge again, have someone who knows something about fencing look at the landing of your lunge (looking at it now -- when you wince every time you hit the floor -- is probably not going to give them an accurate picture).

AE

[needle]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Do you have flat feet or particularly high arches? Planter Fascitiis? Achilles issues? Other feet/ankle/calf/knee issues???

High arches, but not too high. No issues before this.

[needle]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

You haven't said anything about any other activities you engage in, how fit you are, or how much you weigh. All of these might be a factor.

It sounds like you are well protected in the shoe/sock department.

However, as Noodle points out, when you suffer a sudden injury (as opposed to an over-use injury) it's always a good idea to look at your technique. I watch a lot of fencers lunge -- or even worse HEAR them lunge from across the room -- and I wonder how they are still walking after a night's practice.

If you are landing hard on the heel of the front foot, and letting that be the stimulus for dropping the toe to finish the lunge, it certainly could be a cause of your problem. Especially if someone can hear you lunge from more than a few feet away, you might be "slapping" the foot down too hard.

For right now? It's August. Take a break, and when you can stand to lunge again, have someone who knows something about fencing look at the landing of your lunge (looking at it now -- when you wince every time you hit the floor -- is probably not going to give them an accurate picture).

Thanks!!!

Other activities - very moderate - running stairs (8 flights, 1-2 times a day), strength training (1-2 times a week), fencing (6-8 hours a week) and sex.
Parameters: 36, 5'11'', 170 lb, a little overweight (22% body fat)

I will get someone to look at my technique, because the way I perceive it and the way it really is, are often different.
From my perception, I land on exactly the spot that I hurt, with my calf and thigh at obtuse angle; then roll on the heel putting the front foot on the floor and dragging back foot slightly forward, and get calf and thigh close to right angle. Hope the description makes sense.

From recollection, on that particular lunge I might have kicked my front foot up too high, and caused the heel to hit the floor harder than usual, but that may be rationalizing that has nothing to do with what really happened.

[jeff]

What the others said, plus: also see if you have the habit of "arcing" upwards on the lunge instead of projecting forward, which would hammer the heel down with more force.

[XanderHal]

I got a pair of stabils and found that my heels were having more impact problems, maybe having something to do with the thick sole on the heel end of the shoe or maybe bad footwork because I was not used to the newer shoes.

I was almost to the point of limping after one practice. Before ditching the shoes I stuck a pair of gel heel inserts in and have had no problems since.

[needle]

Originally Posted by XanderHal

I was almost to the point of limping after one practice. Before ditching the shoes I stuck a pair of gel heel inserts in and have had no problems since.

I am actually considering switching from plastic heel protector to Dr Scholls gel heel inserts - does anyone have experience with both to give a comparison?

[Fencergrl]

You might want to go to a sports med place http://www.sportmedstore.com/ for your shoe supports (they didn't have a high opinion of Dr Scholls).

Secondly, you might want to consider a physio and or sports doctor.

Thirdly... Vitamin I (ibuprofen) is your friend. After you lay off from fencing and return, if you anticipate your foot to act-up consider taking a small amount of ibuprofen (100-200 mg max) before practice. Too much will make you useless (mentally) as a fencer, but just a little will reduce the swelling before it starts.

Fourthly (and most important) flirt with IHMPH and I. It won't help your foot, but it'll take your mind off of the pain and not fencing.

[seven6ty]

Silicone implants in your feet??

[needle]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Fourthly (and most important) flirt with IHMPH and I. It won't help your foot, but it'll take your mind off of the pain and not fencing.

Now we're talking some real advice here. That I would do even befallen with Black Knight's fate

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

For right now? It's August. Take a break, and when you can stand to lunge again, have someone who knows something about fencing look at the landing of your lunge (looking at it now -- when you wince every time you hit the floor -- is probably not going to give them an accurate picture).

AE

Oh, Lord it can't be August ALREADY!!! I need months of inactivity to heal, recoup and regroup.

I don't like my only pair of "fencing shoes" for the simple reason they give almost no protection to the heel. I do wear orthotics (amazingly flat feet) and they provide at least a half inch of layered cork, plastic, rubber at the heel.

But as another potted poster said, hit and roll don't just hit! Think in terms of the simple advance. Front foot goes forward, heel comes down and as the foot rolls forward so the whole foot is on the floor the rear foot comes forward. A lunge is a variant on the same theme except that the rear foot doesn't necessarily come forward and of course you push out further as the rear leg
feeds in power.

[needle]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

But as another potted poster said, hit and roll don't just hit! Think in terms of the simple advance. Front foot goes forward, heel comes down and as the foot rolls forward so the whole foot is on the floor the rear foot comes forward. A lunge is a variant on the same theme except that the rear foot doesn't necessarily come forward and of course you push out further as the rear leg
feeds in power.

I think that's what I'm doing, but once the heel heals enough, I'll get someone to observe/film my lunge and see if there are corrections to be made.
You've seen me lunge, btw, but you were probably concentrating more on getting the point than on observing whether my heel rolls

[erooMynohtnA]

I had the same problem my whole fencing career except the first year and this last year. The first year I must not have been fencing enough. The last year I managed to correct it.

I had a deep bruise, but I also have a weird condition with my heel that causes it to feel like something is rolling around (it's not a spur, nor is it a ganglion cyst) when I roll my heel, and it's extremely uncomfortable. Because of that I would just slam my foot down heel first instead of making contact with the heel then rolling on my heel to a flat footed position.

What I did: Got different shoes, and I changed my lunge. I was using cheap fencing shoes, like the $30 Victory low tops from Blue Gauntlet. They didn't fit me well, and there was very little padding.

I just got a pair of Dartagnan IIs, and they fit well and had padding. That solved two problems. I could now roll my heel without that uncomfortable sensation, and the better padding meant that there was even less damage if I didn't.

I also changed my lunge. I used to have a giant lunge where I would pop up into the air as much as I went forward (as Allen and Jeff were saying) and slam my front foot down. Now I mostly go forward, and I make a point not to punch my foot into the floor, but touch the heel and roll it smoothly to a flat position.

I couldn't do anything for my foot in the interim though. It hurt so much that I had to walk on my toes sometimes. Take ibuprofen and wear padded shoes when you're not fencing.

I would suggest a gel or foam heel cup instead of a plastic protector.