Not All Press is Good Press

[edew]

Originally Posted by Right-Handed Lefty

Damn straight! We have too many people in this sport covering up for alcoholics, perverts, and incompetents. Seems the USFA is just starting to find out that they have “bad guys” in the sport. I’m not advocating a witch hunt by any means, but word of mouth in the fencing community goes a long way in weeding out these creeps.

"Weeding out these creeps" by word of mouth is a witch hunt. If Matt Hite did something improper, let the courts decide and apply the appropriate penalty. If that penalty is the legal version of a black card, then such "creeps" will be taken out of the sport. Appropriately.

Word of mouth tends to change as it spreads. First it's inappropriate behavior, then it's mother raping then it's father stabbing, then it's father raping...then it's littering.

I'm not here to defend Hite; his lawyer should do that. I'm here to defend the proper process of using our laws. It's there for a purpose.

[edew]

Originally Posted by qatet

In PA at the moment you need to get three clearances - PA criminal record check, PA child abuse clearance, and FBI criminal record check (which involved going and getting fingerprinted and is generally annoying - not yet sure if I need to get fingerprinted again next year, which would be super duper annoying). In my duties for my club, I coach at a number of area schools, and all schools require these clearances. Yes, it is a good idea for clubs to have these background checks, even if you are not specifically involved with outside schools!

I think that's pretty much standard procedure at most places. It's standard procedure here in the Bay Area: fingerprinting and whatever. I don't know if they do a background check per se.

[Right-Handed Lefty]

Originally Posted by Fencing Mom

Perhaps owners and managers of clubs should start obtaining clearances and requiring them for their employees/coaches. At first, in order to work in PA schools, only teachers had to file for criminal and child abuse history clearances issued by the state police and child welfare departments. Now, anyone who volunteers in a school (including volunteer fencing coaches) has to submit those clearances. Recently, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh started requiring clearances and long applications/pledges from the thousands of employees and volunteers in the diocese’s churches. Little old grandmas who have volunteered for the altar guild all their lives have to get clearances from the state police. While grandmas have nothing to do with the criminal acts of child abuse committed by priests and their protective superiors, in order to make the environment safe for children, everyone needs to be held accountable.

Unfortunately, it’s the time that we live in. Perhaps fencing clubs need to acknowlege this.

Most reputable youth programs will do this. They try to weed out the predators as best they can. The problem here lies in private clubs run as businesses-- which means no oversight. A couple of hundred bucks and just enough fencing knowledge to be dangerous and you can get a club. I don't think there's any way to prescreen except to be a vigilant parent. A lot of people see inappropriate actions and ignore them for various reasons. The solution may lie in throwing the book at offenders.

[RebelFencer]

Sounds like Hite could use a hug...

[Cookeit]

!!!!!

That guy coached my sister!!!
I was wondering why she always had bruises on her legs as a sabre fencer...

[the ancient one]

Is anyone else uneasy with this discussion?

I do not and most of us do not know either the accused and the accusers, and will never know the facts.

A "no contest" plea is the same as a guilty verdict and thus becomes a legal fact. However we also know that sometimes defendants are successfully pressured to take that route to avoid ruinous legal expenses even at the cost of their reputation. Prosecutors know this and frequently leverage plea bargains by promising much more severe consequences to anyone who puts up a defense and fails. The common person on the street knows this and the element of doubt still leaves us wondering if the judgment is truly just or is it roasting a saint or sheltering a scoundrel.

Google also provides another related hit:

http://hacklawyer.net/?p=228#comments

This is a bunch of lawyerly advocacy and puffery too, but it seems to suggest that there axes being ground. True/False? Once again, thousands of us here have no way of ever knowing.

I would rather the discussion was directed to a more generic discussion of things like sexual abuse and other improper conduct in the context of fencing organizations than asking thousands of fencing net to pass judgment on specific individuals when we are not privy to the facts.

[epeelion]

That's my club. As stated above, nothing can really be said. Except I will add, that that the news here in the US is obscene and exaggerated, and that this is not a normal case.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by Cookeit

!!!!!

That guy coached my sister!!!
I was wondering why she always had bruises on her legs as a sabre fencer...

Anyone that knows me and my club knows we have NEVER EVER even given sabre lessons of any type.... We are a foil/Epee club.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by the ancient one

Is anyone else uneasy with this discussion?

Yes I am but I am also tired of living it day by day too.

I think I have made all the comments on this that I need to if you have ANY question please call me on the number listed on the previous post...

[Cookeit]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

Anyone that knows me and my club knows we have NEVER EVER even given sabre lessons of any type.... We are a foil/Epee club.

I was talking about that first post, sorry.

[darius]

I don't think there's any way to prescreen except to be a vigilant parent.

Which is why I'm glad that this stuff comes to attention, as repulsive as it can be. The media and rumor mills are what they are, but they can help to confirm or dispel a gut feeling that a parent may have. Trying to put myself in those shoes, I'd want to have as much information as possible, even if it's not properly sourced and fact-checked.

darius

[physicspackage]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

Thanks, and just so everyone knows a student was poked in the belly with a foil and filed an assault charge on Matt. The student was not in gear. Matt's legal council told him not to fight it that it was not worth it and it was Matt's (my) word againist the kid. NO allegations of being a preditor were made. The student added a little flavor to the report which I didn't get a copy of until about 3 weeks ago.

It was a class C mis. just like other minor offenses. It you touch anyone, even a handshake ou can be filed on if the other person claims he felt threatened.

As far as the other parts in the story they are all based around an investigation that Assistant District Attorny Chuck Slaughter started after one of the AC/HP fencing students, Jake Ferguson made a prank phone call to a talk show radio. This was almost three years ago and the student said it was a prank and their were NO charges filed then. Yes that's right fencing politics in our area are worse than you can imagine.

If anyone would like to know all the details please feel free to call me at 806-358-9942

I tired of everywhere I turn Chuck and a few of his fencers and families trying to hound me. I hope one day this stupid witch hunt of his will stop.

I am a "close" person and don't realize my prozimity to others sometime but I am NOT a monster and would NEVER do anything like that to a child!

OK, normally these type of exchanges are kept within division email flame wars. As I have to do there, I will now have to do here. I will defend Chuck's character against unwarranted criticism. I will not use names except for Chuck and Matt, because I do not want anybody else's name (good or bad) to be drawn into this. I am a fencer and a father of fencers in our club with Chuck. He has helped develop my kids into great fencers. He has received recognition from both USFA and USOC for his accomplishments. Over the last 3 years we have spent many hours with Chuck during practice and at competitions. I can say without a doubt that Chuck is NOT the source of Matt's problems. As for fencers/families hounding anyone, there are a few fencers/families (some are now with our club and some don't fence anymore) that have much anger and bitterness about various issues at previous clubs. Some of these stories I know, some I do not. Chuck has actually defended Matt's interests in the past when it was warranted. I know that to some, this will go in one ear and out the other. But I've said my piece and hope this is my last post about this.

[epeelion]

Edited because I really shouldn't say anything at all, even if I mean well by it. Apologies.

[Right-Handed Lefty]

Originally Posted by darius

Which is why I'm glad that this stuff comes to attention, as repulsive as it can be. The media and rumor mills are what they are, but they can help to confirm or dispel a gut feeling that a parent may have. Trying to put myself in those shoes, I'd want to have as much information as possible, even if it's not properly sourced and fact-checked.

darius

This is the point I intended to make except delivered in a more eloquent way.
Parents need all the information they can get.

-RHL-

[HDG]

I would dearly like to see this thread closed before something unfortunate and legally actionable transpires here.

[Chuck]

Matt,

If you want to resolve these issues between us, come to my office and we will talk, off the record. Just you and me. Because this is not the best forum for this discussion.

I've deleted my posts on this issue. I challenge you to do the same.

Chuck

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by physicspackage

OK, normally these type of exchanges are kept within division email flame wars.

I agree this is not the place for this.

Chuck, I have edited my comments to leave out the information involving you but I WILL defend myself.

If you truely want to talk give me a call at the office 373-2292 and we can set up a time and place where we can talk

[Craig]

Closing this thread.

In the meantime I'll be doing some research on the broader issue of what some other sports organizations do to prevent the incident in the first post.

Look for an article or post on that in the next week.

Craig