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Old 07-11-2007, 09:04 PM   #1
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Instructions to build a testing box

I would love to find a manual/instructions that show how to make a testing box so that I can check my own body cords, lame, glove, etc. before getting to a major event. Recently at SN's I had a few brief moments to talk with one of the armorers who stated that a unit could be made fairly cheap with simple components from Home Depot, an Ohm meter, a bunch of washers on a bolt for a weight, all of which could be assembled cheaply. I have been trying to find detailed instructions on how to put it all together so that I could possibly save myself the hassle of having my equipment fail at the tournament. It would also be helpful to be able to check body cords so that I could then fix them in advance. Any ideas or nfo out there??
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:24 PM   #2
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Donna,

Are you wanting something that you can plug a meter into, or something that is self contained (one piece)?

Are you just wanting to test body cords, or weapons as well? If just body cords, do you want it to test all of them, or just the ones you have?

Do you want it to test lames?

Sounds like a ton of questions, but I have a very specific reason for asking them. Each answer will be a diffrent set up totally.

Your simplist way is to buy a enclosure, meter, 2 pole- 6 position rotary switch, pannel mount jacks 4mm and some 22 guage strained wire.

If you want to go through this process, I can help you out. Just note, it will take some time and patience to build

I build several types of test boxes for fencing: most commonly known one is the Twister Box: http://sword-masters.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1372

Let me know in detail what you what you want to use it for and I will be glad to give you my knowledge and help to assist you in building your own. Armorer's taking care of future Armorer's.

Gary Spruill
email: mrnuvell@aol.com


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Originally Posted by DonnaP View Post
I would love to find a manual/instructions that show how to make a testing box so that I can check my own body cords, lame, glove, etc. before getting to a major event. Recently at SN's I had a few brief moments to talk with one of the armorers who stated that a unit could be made fairly cheap with simple components from Home Depot, an Ohm meter, a bunch of washers on a bolt for a weight, all of which could be assembled cheaply. I have been trying to find detailed instructions on how to put it all together so that I could possibly save myself the hassle of having my equipment fail at the tournament. It would also be helpful to be able to check body cords so that I could then fix them in advance. Any ideas or nfo out there??
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:29 AM   #3
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Gary,

Thank you SO much for your offer! I am so excited!! I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. I am mildly knowledgable about electricity, currents, amps, ohms, etc., but certainly may need a good amount of help with this!!

First, I guess as I'm only using the unit for testing fencing equipment, I don't know if it makes a difference to me if it's separate or contained as a single unit.

My son and I are saber fencers, so I would want to test any/all of our equipment; body cords, head cords, lames, gloves, etc. (I already have a piece of spare lame material for underneath.) I would love a unit that could potentially test other weapons as well as I could then be helpful to other fencers in my club.

I guess you could call me a novice but aspiring armorer. I'm already carrying full tool kits around with me and loaning out everything from allen wrenches and screwdrivers to tape and whatever else I have. I can take apart and strip down body wires that are broken and re-wire them. I do know how to do basic soldering. All skills I learned from my "fix everything in the house" dad. I just need to get to the next level now.

Would you prefer I email you directly?? You can email me personally as well at pepedbj@sbcglobal.net

Thanks again for your offer to help - I'm looking forward to it!!

Donna
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:30 AM   #4
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Donna, the zero order test box is a analog multimeter, you really need one with an R x 1 scale. Not so long ago I saw a Sperry meter at Home Depot for about $15. It is about 3 inches by 4 inches by one inch or even smaller.

You do want to buy some stacking banana plugs, I believe Radio shack still sells them. Get someone with a soldering iron or gun to put the banana plugs on the meter test leads.

You can test body cords by plugging in one test lead and just touching the other lead to the pin or bayonet plug at the other end. Try to wiggle the wires around. check a pin at one end against all 3 parts of the other end. One should have a low reading and the other two should be infinite.

Once you know you have a good body cord, then you can test weapons.

You can test Lames by just touching the two banana plugs as far apart as you can. Testing with a banana plug is more strict than the armorers test. If it is good with the banana plugs, I don't see how it can fail.

The only reason to have a test box is to do it quickly, although it is nice for a club to have one.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:32 AM   #5
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Gary,

PS, we use bayonets!!
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:42 AM   #6
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I made a couple of club type testers, don't have any pictures that I can find. They had a switch enclosure box on a board with an Epee socket bolted to the board at one end and an Epee and both common type Foil sockets at the other. Not very portable but good at home. The board is non conductive so you avoid some problems. Using a plastic box also avoids problems.

I am sure several armorers, myself included, will be glad to work with you. Just tell us how complicated you want to get.
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:17 PM   #7
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Schematics, if you know how to read them, are the best way to communicate how a test box is built. If you don't, a verbal description is probably best; it's pretty hard to illustrate it other than a schematic.

I go with Twister, build a simple one meter test box. You need a 6 position, two pole rotary switch. You might find it at Radio Shack. You will find it on line. A good example is:
http://www.futurlec.com/Switches/ROTP2P6pr.shtml
(I love futurlec, prices are super low, shipping is super low, no minimum order)

A knob would be nice. You may have to shorten the shaft on the switch
http://www.futurlec.com/SwKnob.shtml

You need jacks to plug your cords into. A lot of test boxes use plain banana jacks like:
http://www.futurlec.com/Banana-Posts.shtml
plus a bayonet socket. Another option is to get two epee sockets, a two prong socket and a bayonet socket. This solves one problem of using banana jacks, which is how you get the socket for the skinny 2 pin.

You need a couple of posts to clip alligators to. You can use a banana plug mounted through the panel and a nut, or you can just use a screw with a nut on the top. I use a screw through a short length of brass tubing with a nut on the top and two nuts on the bottom. Put a star washer between the panel and the screw head or first nut. The wire goes under the screw head or between the two nuts on the bottom.

You need two banana plugs to connect to your meter:
http://www.futurlec.com/Banana-BananaPlugs.shtml
Use some nice wire on them. Old body cord wire will be fine.

Then you need a box to put it in:
http://www.futurlec.com/ProjectBoxes.shtml

Start by laying out the box. Probably best to put the reel 3 prong on the left and both 2 prongs and the fencer side 3 prongs on the right. The switch can go in the middle, or maybe on a side of the box. Drill and mount all the sockets and the switch. Drill two holes on the back for the wires that go to the meter. On most switches, there is a little post sticking up on the shaft side. Make a hole for the post in your box. This holds the switch in position when you rotate the knob. It usually takes me about twice as long to do this part as it does to wire the box, but I have lots of wiring experience.

Okay, now the tricky part. Wiring.

Start by connecting the B line of the bayonet to the B line of the 2 pin, and the C line of the bayonet to the C line of the 2 pin. One of the bayonet connections is easy: the screw terminal. The other is the strap. Best to drill a hole in the strap and put a screw and nut to put a wire under. Connect the left clip post to the reel end A and the right clip lead to the fencer end A

Okay, now figure out how your switch works. There are two sections ("poles") and each section has one contact for the wiper, and 6 contacts for the positions. Turn the switch to the full counterclockwise position, identify the wiper contacts (they are usually distinctive) and find out which contact the first position is using your ohmmeter. One contact is connected to the wiper (for each pole) in each switch position. Draw a sketch of your switch and mark position 1 for each pole. Rotate the switch clockwise one click and identify the second position contacts. There is a pattern, but sometimes it's not so obvious. When you are sure you understand what the contacts do, let's wire the switch.

It's easier to start wiring with the switch out of the box if you can clamp it in a small vise or something. Use a pencil soldering iron and some 22 or 24 gauge solid wire.

The way you wire it is to achieve the following result:
Code:
Position  Test
1          A
2          B
3          C
4          A-B reverse
5          B-C reverse
6          A-C reverse
To do this, you make the following connections
Pole 1 Position 1 to Pole 1 position 4 to Pole 1 position 6 (Reel end A)
Pole 1 Position 2 to Pole 1 position 5 (Reel end B)

Pole 2 Position 2 to Pole 2 position 4 (Fencer end B)
Pole 2 Position 3 to Pole 2 position 5 to Pole 2 position 6 (Fencer end C)

Now mount your switch in the box.

Okay, final wiring:
The wipers go to the wires that exit the back to your meter with banana plugs on the meter ends.

Pole 1 position 1 - Reel end A
Pole 1 position 2 - Reel end B
Pole 1 position 3 - Reel end C
Pole 2 position 1 - Fencer end A
Pole 2 position 2 - Fencer end B
Pole 2 position 3 - Fencer end C

Visual Inspect: at this point, every connector should have at least one wire on every terminal, and every contact on the switch (14 = 1 wiper and 6 contacts per pole) should have at least one wire on it (at least if I typed the instructions right, and you built it right)

Now check it.

Plug your meter into your box. You should see infinite ohms.
Take a piece of wire (a test lead with banana plugs on both ends is handy)
Connect Reel A to Fencer A.

You should see zero ohms when the switch is in position 1, and no other position. Try this with the clip posts also. You should have the same result.

Connect Reel B to Fencer B
You should see zero ohms when the switch is in position 2. Try the 2 pin B and the bayonet B

Connect Reel C to Fencer C
You should see zero ohms when the switch is in position 3. Try the 2 pin C and the bayonet C

Connect Reel A to Fencer B
You should see zero ohms when the switch is in position 4.

Connect Reel B to Fencer C
You should see zero ohms when the switch is in position 5.

Connect Reel A to Fencer C
You should see zero ohms when the switch is in position 6

If you need to troubleshoot, isolate the problem to one side. Start by leaving the connection to pole 1 wiper on the test box, unplug the other wire and put the test wire that came with the meter. Use the test lead and see if you can see:

Reel A in position 1 (and left clip)
Reel B in position 2
Reel C in position 3
Reel A in position 4
Reel B in position 5
Reel A in position 6

Now unplug the pole one wire and plug in the pole 2 wire. Use the test lead to confirm
Fencer A in position 1 (and right clip)
Fencer B in position 2 (and 2 pin B/bayonet B)
Fencer C in position 3 (and 2 pin C/bayonet C)
Fencer B in position 4
Fencer C in position 5
Fencer C in position 6

Good luck. Send us a picture.

Last edited by brtech; 07-13-2007 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Improve clarity
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:24 AM   #8
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BR, your contribution is heroic, I wimped out. Craig should make sure this stays easily found in the Armory reference f.net section.

Edit. I tried to give him rep points but I haven't spread enough around since I did it last time.
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Old 07-14-2007, 03:11 AM   #9
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Bill,

I just did not want to write it down either; I was going to go through it with her item by item. Keep it simple.

Gary Spruill

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BR, your contribution is heroic, I wimped out. Craig should make sure this stays easily found in the Armory reference f.net section.

Edit. I tried to give him rep points but I haven't spread enough around since I did it last time.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:43 AM   #10
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BR, your contribution is heroic, I wimped out. Craig should make sure this stays easily found in the Armory reference f.net section.

Edit. I tried to give him rep points but I haven't spread enough around since I did it last time.
As an aside...what's this "spread it around" thing? This is the second time I have seen this in the last couple of days.

I have a box which was built by someone who fenced for about a week and figured out how to make one without ever having seen one (or knowing that they exist at all, for that matter...) This was made about 15 years ago, and even though it's kind of beat up...it's held together with electrical tape and the battery is now external like a colostomy bag, it works better than the new one I got from Absolute.

I would like to learn how to make these things...and I know it's probably cheaper to buy them, but I think it would be more fun to learn how to make them. Unfortunately, I have no electrical knowledge (besides wiring the addition on my house...but that's a no-brainer).

When I have more time, I think I'll ask some of you how to go about making one of these things if you're an idiot like I am. I think someone would be able to make some money AND spread some knowledge by putting together KITS with all the parts and instructions! For someone like me, once I've done it once, I can replicate it and make changes as I see fit. Anyone up for it? I'd buy one! The one thing I would ask for in a test box is a buzzer which turns on for two or three seconds when the circuit opens (closes...whatever). When I'm testing for an intermittant break, the darn Absolute box doesn't help because I won't be able to detect a brief light...but the buzzer is obvious. The home-made box is great for this!
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
As an aside...what's this "spread it around" thing? This is the second time I have seen this in the last couple of days.
If you have given cool points/rep to someone, you cannot give it to them again until you've given some to 10 other people first. Or some number like that. If you generally stick to only a few areas of fencing.net, or only give out rep rarely, it gets hard to rep a person who says 2 really good things close together.
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Old 07-14-2007, 05:55 PM   #12
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I know you said you wanted to build one, but Swordmaster's has what you are looking for prebuilt. It's a version of the Favero tester that has a buzzer. The Favero tester has red/green LEDs for A-B and B-C contacts, and yellow leds on both sides for intermittant changes to the connection state. It's part of every senior armorer's toolkit. We don't leave home without one. Swordmaster's stocks a version with a buzzer.

You can use the Favero to do a quick test on a cord, but it doesn't measure resistance. It does a great job of uncovering intermittent contact though.
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Old 07-14-2007, 06:58 PM   #13
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Thanks to everyone for the great replies. I am working with Twisterfencing and now have my initial "shopping list". I agree with Beliot in that I really want to try and build this myself. I thank brtech for the detailed intructions and parts resources. Are there any schematics available?? That would make this whole process easier for anyone wanting to do this.

Thanks again to all of you for your help - I'll let you know how it turns out!!

Donna
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:02 PM   #14
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Excellent guide Brtech.

A few questions:

I don't understand why you need the bayonet socket, when testing a body cord do you stick both ends in? What would you do if it were 2 prong german style and has the little clip preventing it from inserting?

Would I need to make any changes to make it able to test foil weapons/and lames? (body cords is obvious )

Lastly, how/where would you add a buzzer to this?
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:39 PM   #15
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OK...Thanks tech...I may look into the Swordmasters one...but I am copying and pasting the important part from my previous post. If someone would put together the kit w/ instructions, they could SAVE the time and manpower of putting the box together, and charge the same amount (or more...I would pay more!). There are so many of us who may have learned to put together bulletproof foils, but don't know enough about electronics to pick up the parts at Radioshack and make these from scratch. I don't even know how to read schematics. Ask me about supply and demand, the velocity of money, alpha, beta, and the standard deviation of the average annual rate of return on a mutual fund, and I'm all over it...but resistors, capacitors, circuits...I'm a dummy. I would LOVE for someone to take this up!

I think someone would be able to make some money AND spread some knowledge by putting together KITS with all the parts and instructions! For someone like me, once I've done it once, I can replicate it and make changes as I see fit. Anyone up for it? I'd buy one! The one thing I would ask for in a test box is a buzzer which turns on for two or three seconds when the circuit opens (closes...whatever). When I'm testing for an intermittant break, the darn Absolute box doesn't help because I won't be able to detect a brief light...but the buzzer is obvious. The home-made box is great for this!
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:49 PM   #16
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I would buy one!
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookeit View Post
Excellent guide Brtech.

A few questions:

I don't understand why you need the bayonet socket, when testing a body cord do you stick both ends in?
Yes, you do. Typically, you make a test box so it tests any kind of cord.
Mine actually has a Negrini bayonet as well as an LP bayonet. If you really only want to use it for your own stuff, just use what you have.

It occurs to me that I didn't give instructions to use the tester.
You plug both ends of the body cord in.

Then you rotate the switch to Position 1. You should see close to zero ohms. Wiggle both wires to make sure you don't see the meter jump, indicating an intermittent connection. This tests the A line.

Then rotate the switch to Position 2 and repeat. This tests B.

Then rotate to position 3 and repeat. This tests C.

Quickly check position 4 and 5 looking for any connection (you should see infinite ohms). If you see a connection, the cord is shorted

If the A test fails, try position 4 or 6. This would indicate an A-B or an A-C reversal.

If the B test fails, try position 5. If you see zero ohms, that would be a B-C reversal.


Quote:
What would you do if it were 2 prong german style and has the little clip preventing it from inserting?
Well now, that is an interesting question. You can do it a couple of ways.

One is to place the 2 pin sockets so that the clip hangs off the edge of the box.

Another is what Dan DeChaine does, which is to use a banana socket with a spacer that raises it up high enough that the clip doesn't bottom out. The secret to that is that he buys jacks that are designed to go on a metal panel, so they have a plastic part that goes on the bottom of the panel and the top and bottom parts have a ridge that fits into the hole in the panel. These are Pomona jacks; very nice jacks. I found some inexpensively on EBay. The trick is to use the bottom part as the spacer.

Sometimes, you just put it in, and let the clip hit the box; the pins usually go far enough in.



Quote:
Would I need to make any changes to make it able to test foil weapons/and lames? (body cords is obvious )
This design doesn't test a weapon. You could try to find a rotary switch with 8 positions. Connect the 7th position of pole 1 to Reel A and the 7th position of Reel B to test epee. Connect the 8th position of Reel B and the 8th position of Reel C to test foil.

Another thing you could do is to use a toggle switch to change from a cord test to a weapon test. To do that, I think the easiest way would be to use a double pole, double throw switch, and to change the wiring above.

Change the step
Pole 1 Position 2 to Pole 1 position 5 (Reel end B)
to
Pole 1 Position 2 to Pole 1 position 5 to toggle pole 1 NO (Reel end B)

Change
Pole 2 Position 2 to Pole 2 position 4 (Fencer end B)
to
Rotary Pole 2 Position 2 to toggle Pole 1 NC (Fencer end B)

Add
toggle Pole 1 common to Pole 2 position 4

Add
Rotary Pole 1 Position 3 to toggle pole 2 NO (Reel end C)

Change
Pole 2 Position 3 to Pole 2 position 5 to Pole 2 position 6 (Fencer end C)
to
Pole 2 Position 3 to Pole 2 position 6 to toggle pole 2 NC (Fencer end C)

Add
toggle Pole 1 common to Pole 2 position 5

I think that is right. With the toggle in the NC position, it ought to be the same as without the toggle, and used for a cord test.

With the toggle in the NO position, Position 4 should be an Epee test (Reel A to Reel B) and Position 5 should be a Foil test (Reel B to Reel C)

To test a lame, add two banana jacks on the side of the box. Connect one to Reel A and the other to Fencer A. Put the switch to Position 1. You need a cord with a clip plugged into one of these extra banana jacks. You need a 500 gram weight with a post connected to the other. Some combo weights are set up so that the foil side makes a lame tester. Yeoldarmorer sells a post you can put in any foil test weight. You can make your own with a large pile of big washers, a bolt and a brass acorn nut. Assemble and adjust the number of washers to make 500 grams.


Quote:
Lastly, how/where would you add a buzzer to this?
There really isn't a great way to add a buzzer to this circuit, because it's using an external ohmmeter. To get a buzzer circuit in, we would have to disconnect the ohmmeter and add a battery and the buzzer. Better off as a separate tester I think (or just buy the Favero with buzzer from Swordmasters).
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:21 PM   #18
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