How to get the most out of Coaches College?

[tbryan]

I'm going to Coaches College next week (Epee 1), and I'm looking for advice on how to get the most out of the week. I've never been to Coaches College. From talking to others, I only have a vague idea of what to expect. I'll certainly do the work, pay attention, etc.

I was just wondering if anyone had some "I got so much more out of the experience the year I..." kind of advice.

Some additional info for those who don't know me. I'm primarily a fencer (epee and foil). I just assistant coach to offset my club fees. I only give about 3 private lessons a week, but I generally get to work with a mix of experienced unrated fencers and decent Div II level fencers. I've given lessons to a few different epee students. My students' best result so far was a top 32 finish in Cadet Men's Epee at JOs a couple of years ago. I'm now also teaching an epee group class at my club.

Thanks!

[VorpalCat]

Listen, listen, listen!! If you have an answer to what's being asked or have a question, absolutely contribute but don't be one of the 'I have to show how much I know' types that keeps butting in and slowing things down. Be there to learn, not to impress anyone.

Also, consider keeping a small notebook and pen in your equipment case. You'll get a ton of great info and while much of it is common sense and/or also covered in the manuals, noting it in your own words and adding your own thoughts and impressions will help cement it in your mind for the exams and for later use back at the home salle. (Run-on sentence, much? ) I never regretted jotting down too much information during the breaks last year. I certainly regret not jotting down enough information my first time there.

Most important: HAVE FUN. This will be an awesome experience. Enjoy every minute of it, from the aches and pains to the incredible camaraderie that will develop between you and some or all of your classmates. I loved my two trips to CC, wish I could have gone again this year but time, alas...

[Adler]

I agree with Vorpalcat take notes and have fun but I would add that its a really good idea to video any demonstration lessons so you can go over them in more detail later and you will be able to see the cadence and the blade presentation of the coach.
I regularly watch the video I have from courses with Gabor Bognar, Peter Frohlich and Istavan Lukovich which help keep my rather dry technical notes fresh.

[epeeslasher]

Ask questions, I can't emphasize this enough. The coaches are always obliged to help your understanding of the material and they are very clear and coherent. You may even get to learn a little more than the current level your in.

If something seems off in one of the manuals, it may very well be. You will want to ask about this as our parry 8 illustration was done with wrist up. When brought to the coaches attention they agreed parry 8 is done with wrist down, but the illustration was from a more classical style.

Taking notes is a good idea, especially if your like me and have a terrible memory. But watching the coaches closely during demonstrations maybe more important than listening to their words.

There is a sports library on site with excellent fencing videos from top coaches, these are all really awesome to watch but probably won't help too much with what you're going to learn. They are nearly all advanced lessons from what I recall.

And lastly, don't panic. There is a lot of material at first, but you eventually get the gist of it after 3 or 4 days. You'll be in the same boat with most of the people in your class so ask them for their thoughts on the daily lessons.

[darius]

- Use the OTC. The library has an impressive array of both videos and books of fencing or sports-related stuff. If you're interested in learning Olympic lifts, the gym staff was extremely helpful. I also kept track of the meals that were especially excellent, and was able to get the recipes from the executive chef.

- If you screw something up, avail yourself of the great medical staff. If you're a little sore, feel free to do the same; everybody else has ice bags taped around their joints, it'll help you fit in.

- Hydrate and eat breakfast. To my 27-yr old legs, the sessions weren't incredibly taxing, but sometimes I got mentally fatigued. Oatmeal and an omelette at breakfast made a huge difference.

- Hang out with the instructors, or people in other sessions outside of class. Some of the most interesting teachable moments of my stay last year came from chatting over lunch with the instructors.

- Hustle. The instructors have good eyes, and genuinely care about their work, but if you're just there in search of a certificate, it will be noticed. Those who are ambitious are also noticed.

- Have an open mind. You may be told things that will clash with what you've been taught. Make sure you understand what you're getting before you reject it.

- Bring a notebook. Write obsessively in it.

- Explore. I saw some great athletes doing some pretty neat stuff.

- You can not go glass for glass with Dan DeChaine. Don't try.

darius

[Allen Evans]

It might be a little late for this advice (perhaps you haven't left yet?), but one of the things I like to have in hand by the time I get to each session of Coaches College is 1-3 questions about coaching that I absolutely want answers to. I walked into every session of CC I attended with questions I wanted to have answered, and pursing those questions with the instructor and my fellow students made a big difference.

In every Level 1 class there is always someone very opinionated and someone who knows a lot. Hint: they aren't always the same person. The guy or girl who knows a lot can be a valuable resource when you run into trouble spots. The opinionated person should probably be avoided, except for those rare occasions when they are one and the same....or me.

Bring your own pillow.

Try to work with everyone in class as soon as possible. You'll have a practical test at the end of the course, and finding someone you mesh with -- even if they aren't the best student in class -- will make that practical a lot more comfortable. The earlier you find that person, the earlier you can focus on planning lessons with them with the idea of doing well on the practical.

Eat breakfast, even if you usually don't at home (Good advice, Darius). Remember that chocolate milk is the new gatorade.

Good luck!

AE

[tbryan]

It might be a little late for this advice (perhaps you haven't left yet?),

I don't leave until later this week, so advice is still welcome.

Bring your own pillow.

Already on my list. I saw a photo of the rooms, and I don't think that I could sleep on the pillows I saw.

I was, of course, planning to pay attention to the instructors and do the drills, and I always take lots of notes since, with my learning style, it helps me remember things longer. I was particularly looking for smaller things that I'd know the second time I went, but I simply wouldn't think of before the first session. From the seemingly trivial (bring a pillow) to the practical (work with folks early in the week to find good exam partners), it's all useful to me.

Actually, I can already second Allen's recommendation on the exam partners thing. I know a coach who had a partner picked out one year, but then she was called for her practical while he was in the middle of his. She ended up stuck with one of the other coaches who was waiting there, and it turned out to be...um...one of the opinionated ones. She passed, but I don't think that the practical went as smoothly as planned.

And Darius's mention of food reminds me that I probably should have contacted the OTC already concerning my dietary restrictions.

[darius]

In every Level 1 class there is always someone very opinionated and someone who knows a lot.

Oh, I forgot about that one, but that seemed true for the Level 2s as well. Try not to bait the opinionated ones, although it can be awfully awfully hard, and provide lunch entertainment for all.

Try to work with everyone in class as soon as possible.

If you're too worried, you can always steal a student from a higher level. The percentage chance that they know which end of the weapon to hold is higher.

Remember that chocolate milk is the new gatorade.

But if you cling to old ways, there's Gatorade on tap...

She passed, but I don't think that the practical went as smoothly as planned.

Expect the unexpected there, but from my observation the panel is pretty nice to the L1s. If you're in L2 or higher, some panel members will amuse themselves at your expense.

And Darius's mention of food reminds me that I probably should have contacted the OTC already concerning my dietary restrictions.

The OTC labels its food exceptionally well, and has a wide variety at all the standard meal times. Unless you're a vegan with a gluten allergy, in which case, go with God.

darius

[RITFencing]

Ask questions. Constantly. Anytime you don't know something, or you think of something, ask about it. Ask the instructors, the other students, yourself, whomever. Get the brain juices working, even if 99% of your questions are stupid. Try new things, as well. Don't be afraid to experiment when you're setting up lessons, try different combinations of things, different distances, tempo changes, whatever. You are there to learn, and you do that best when your mind is as open and creative as possible.

Talk to the other students and the instructors about things. Find out how they do things, look for stuff you can copy, stuff you want to avoid, and ideas they can give you.

Most importantly: Don't limit your curriculum to the book they give you, and don't limit your learning time to the gym.

[Don Badowski]

This is way too late I know, since I just got back from the first session myself. But for the record...

1. The jury is looking for your ability to teach the student something, not just give a perfect lesson. So watch for flaws that you can correct. Like a parry or disengage done too big, tension in the student, foot before hand in the offensive, etc.

2. Study your manuals. The staff is insistent on correct definitions. And if you fail the written, there is no practical for you.

3. Don't be afraid to volunteer to demo a lesson before your classmates. Sure they'll rip on you (nicely), but you'll learn.

4. If you're going to the CC to teach a weapon you have little or no skill in, take a few lessons first, even if you have to travel far to get it.

[oiuyt]

3. Don't be afraid to volunteer to demo a lesson before your classmates. Sure they'll rip on you (nicely), but you'll learn.

I just wanted to repeat this bit of advice. It especially holds for the lower-level classes, which can be large enough for people to hide. Get out there, and try the things that you're learning. Where else can you get immediate feedback from experienced coaches on how to improve your lesson-giving?

If your goal in attending CC is to learn as much as possible (and it should be), getting lots of feedback on what you do and how you do it is a very valuable tool. So be willing to put yourself out there, ESPECIALLY if you're not sure you can do the lesson segment perfectly.

This is a great place to learn. It really helps the more you allow yourself to be open to advice.

Oh, and like a parachute, a mind works best when open. Don't come looking for confirmation that your way is the best. Come looking for different opinions and ways of improving your understanding, technique, and methods.

-B

[Allen Evans]

So, tbryan, how was it?

My own experience was very good. Saber 3 was very small, but everyone worked hard (too hard, in fact, since we broke almost all the coaches in the class) and Kelly Williams did an excellent job.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This is one of the only programs I can directly point to that assists grass roots fencing in the US, and more should be done to promote it and expand it.

AE

[jfarmer]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This is one of the only programs I can directly point to that assists grass roots fencing in the US, and more should be done to promote it and expand it.

AE

So how do we do this? Or encourage it to happen? It appears that the current limits are set by both access to the physical site (for example, no classes at all next year...) and by the sheer load on the (to few!) qualifier instructors. Do we have a larger body of instructors such that the first level classes can be spread out over a larger period of time and or locations? To my mind the "most bang for the buck" would come from holding first levels at several locations and several times a year and reserve the time at the OTC for upper level courses.

John Farmer
Coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club

[tbryan]

So, tbryan, how was it?

The good:

• I really liked the way Zoila presented the material in the Epee 1 class. It built up the cues for more complex actions very nicely from the simple actions.
• There were some interesting ideas about teaching various footwork actions. For example, teaching the fleche as a cross-over that just gets progressively longer with each repetition until it kinds of develops into a lazy fleche. Then add the explosiveness.
• I apparently needed a lot of work on my cues for remise and reprise.
• I apparently need a lot of work as a fencer on doing reprises and remises.
• I got to work with a really broad range of fencers and coaches. Of course, most of them were foilists, which made some of the epee work a little strange. Still, I normally work with just a few students per year, so that much variety of student was a big change for me. It was interesting in that I could try to teach something very small to the student right now. Normally, I'm thinking more about an arc of 6 to 8 lessons that builds up to something else, so I'm sometimes a bit less attentive to this skill right now in this lesson.

The bad:

• I'm afraid that attending the same session with two other coaches from my club created a bit of a wall between us and some of the other students. Maybe with two coaches from one club, it wouldn't be a problem, but three coaches suddenly take up most of the space at a table at lunch, etc. On the plus side, we got to spend some of the together time doing some useful planning for the upcoming year.
• Really dry air. Remember to bring chapstick next time. I usually associated chapped lips with winter time.
• I'm realizing how long it will take to get to the level 3 classes even if I am able to pass one class per year from now on.

The most important thing for me in the Epee 1 was learning to be more mindful in my lessons. While I'm always teaching something in a lesson, it was helpful to be forced to cue a beat attack in this lesson but a beat parry with riposte in some other lesson. That narrow focus in the lesson forced me to pay close attention to my cues and some other aspects of the lesson. While I've given lessons and am comfortable cuing and building a lesson, my focus is normally the student. At coaches college, I had much more time to pay attention to myself and what I was doing during the lesson.

[Don Badowski]

So how do we do this? Or encourage it to happen?

I don't think coaches (or potential coaches) in the U.S. need that much encouragement to attend the level 1 classes. I did all three and had 30 for foil, 26 for saber and 22 for epee. Unless the CC staff is going to hire additional instructors for level 1 classes, they are near the limit they can handle now. What I'd like to see is the level 2 and 3 getting better numbers. I wonder if the coaches who stop at level 1 feel they now know enough, or they've found their level, or just can't afford the time.

Then there is the dorm and floorspace issue. The CC can only get one floor of one dorm, and most rooms have all three beds taken. It was May before we got the word that we would get any OTC space at all this year. Holding the CC elsewhere would probably double the cost. We have it really good at the OTC for the money we pay.

Finally, I have it straight from Alex and Elizabeth themselves that they look forward to the Olympic off year, so they can take an extended vacation.

[oiuyt]

We have it really good at the OTC for the money we pay.

Note that the cost is subsidized by the USFA.

I'd be very unsurprised to find out that the rates for room & board charged by the USOC/OTC are well below market/replacement rate as well.

-B

[jfarmer]

Note that the cost is subsidized by the USFA.

I'd be very unsurprised to find out that the rates for room & board charged by the USOC/OTC are well below market/replacement rate as well.

-B

Any ideas of what the costs are? I'm sure that it is a good deal (and much can be said about the status of training at the OTC...) but it would be interesting to compare.

John Farmer
Coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club

[jfarmer]

I don't think coaches (or potential coaches) in the U.S. need that much encouragement to attend the level 1 classes. I did all three and had 30 for foil, 26 for saber and 22 for epee. Unless the CC staff is going to hire additional instructors for level 1 classes, they are near the limit they can handle now. What I'd like to see is the level 2 and 3 getting better numbers. I wonder if the coaches who stop at level 1 feel they now know enough, or they've found their level, or just can't afford the time.

Then there is the dorm and floorspace issue. The CC can only get one floor of one dorm, and most rooms have all three beds taken. It was May before we got the word that we would get any OTC space at all this year. Holding the CC elsewhere would probably double the cost. We have it really good at the OTC for the money we pay.

Finally, I have it straight from Alex and Elizabeth themselves that they look forward to the Olympic off year, so they can take an extended vacation.

It sounds like the program is at the limits of what is available from both the current staff and space.

I suspect that the drop off from the numbers attending Level 1 in Levels 2 and up can be attributed to several things. One is the time it takes for a part-time coach/instructor to assimilate the material and reach the point that they feel ready to tackle the upper levels. Another factor is cost in both money and time. Taking 1 to 3 weeks away from work and family during the summer can have a definite impact. (What is the statistic? 99.9% of all fencing coaches have other "real" jobs?)

It might be beneficial for the CC/AC leaders to look at scheduling more Level 1 classes each summer and offer the Level 2 & up classes of a less frequent basis.

John Farmer
Coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club

[oiuyt]

Any ideas of what the costs are? I'm sure that it is a good deal (and much can be said about the status of training at the OTC...) but it would be interesting to compare.

I don't know what the OTC/USOC charges the USFA per participant, if that's what you're asking.

It might be beneficial for the CC/AC leaders to look at scheduling more Level 1 classes each summer and offer the Level 2 & up classes of a less frequent basis.

They typically run L1&2 in all three weapons each (non-Olympic) year. L3 and up already run less frequently.

-B

[keith]

I don't know what the OTC/USOC charges the USFA per participant, if that's what you're asking.

......as a (totally random) guess probably the surcharge added for non US citizens/permanent residents. I recall that being over $100 a day.