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catwood1 · 07-07-2007, 03:01 AM

Why is it that the best fencers do not fence in the div 1A event. It seems like you never see the top 10 or 20 fencers in the country for a given weapon fencing in the Div 1A. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I have no idea why this is.

Anyone care to enlighten me.
And thanks in advance.

eac · 07-07-2007, 05:45 AM

In Div 1, the top fencers fight for rankings on the points list, placement on national teams, and the title of National Champion (with the giant cup that goes with it).

Div 1a doesn't award any of these things; at best, it awards an A rating and a qualification to next year's Div 1, which the top fencers have anyway.

Peach · 07-07-2007, 08:09 AM

The Div IA is a compromise event; I'm grateful it exists because under our current structure an adult fencer with an A or B who is not on the national points list would not be able to fence at Summer Nationals except for team or (if qualified) Veteran events. It offers a moderately high-quality event to the best fencers from all the sections across the country, instead of from a handful of clubs, and extends the possibility of earning or re-earning a classification. However, it does not draw the elite fencers (heck, neither do the Division I championships if someone fencing internationally doesn't need the points) and it can be about the same as the Division II or even less strong.

dridge · 07-07-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peach

The Div IA is a compromise event; I'm grateful it exists because under our current structure an adult fencer with an A or B who is not on the national points list would not be able to fence at Summer Nationals except for team or (if qualified) Veteran events. It offers a moderately high-quality event to the best fencers from all the sections across the country, instead of from a handful of clubs, and extends the possibility of earning or re-earning a classification. However, it does not draw the elite fencers (heck, neither do the Division I championships if someone fencing internationally doesn't need the points) and it can be about the same as the Division II or even less strong.

I too am grateful that it Div 1A is held. This year's Div 1A Men's Epee had 117 entrants, with more than 30 current A fencers and more than a handful of guys holding senior points. For most of us, that's an attractive opportunity to compete against very strong opponents, even if the USA's elite have no good reason to enter.

Drew

edew · 07-07-2007, 05:49 PM

Also the only (ok, main) qualifying path to the Div 1A is through the sectional championships. None of the top fencers would go to the sectional championships since they're probably traveling somewhere in Asia or Europe earning international points.

teacup · 07-07-2007, 07:09 PM

Next year the Div IA event may attract a different combination of competitors since there will be one fewer Div I event for A & B fencers since the Div 1 Championships will be in April and not during Summer Nationals.

bigdawg2121 · 07-07-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacup

Next year the Div IA event may attract a different combination of competitors since there will be one fewer Div I event for A & B fencers since the Div 1 Championships will be in April and not during Summer Nationals.

NB: By different here we mean that there will be few Div 1 competitors b/c they will have already competed in their peak event for the season and will likely be taking time off or traveling around the world for the last qualifying events. Best case scenario Ivan Lee gets bored, gets paid to ref a bit and fences 1A MF or ME for ****s and giggles, except not actually Ivan b/c he lives on a different coast, but you get the idea.

teacup · 07-08-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

NB: By different here we mean that there will be few Div 1 competitors b/c they will have already competed in their peak event for the season and will likely be taking time off or traveling around the world for the last qualifying events. Best case scenario Ivan Lee gets bored, gets paid to ref a bit and fences 1A MF or ME for ****s and giggles, except not actually Ivan b/c he lives on a different coast, but you get the idea.

By different I mean that although the strong adult fencers will be off travelling or otherwise, some stronger junior fencers who usually fence Div I Championships and not Div IA, may decide to fence in Div IA at Summer Nationals 2008 because fencing Div IA would mean two events instead of one making the expense of the trip more worthwhile.

Also compared to this year, more fencers from the west and fewer from the east will decide to fence Div IA but it will depend on how close the Div IA event is scheduled to the Jr/Vets individual and Jr/Sr team events.

Bottom line, it will be a different combination of competitors than this year, which of course it always is, it may be a little stronger than in years with Div I events due to the additional juniors but who knows, it is a long time from now.

teacup · 07-08-2007, 02:31 PM

As for the original question, many senior and junior fencers with Div I points, who travel a lot and are trying to make the US team, may choose not fence Div IA because points are not given. It is more worthwhile to save time and money and either travel to an international event or just go home early rather than fence Div IA.

For Cadets and Juniors with Div I points, it may be just too many events. (Cdt, Jr, Div I, Jr. and Sr. Team., four or five events is a lot.) This is the same reason why many of the strongest junior fencers do not fence in the team events. It depends on the schedule. For example, this year the senior ME team event was the day before the U19 ME event. Many of the stronger U19 fencers did not participate.

As for the U19 ME team, being two days after the U19 ME event, many fencers had left Miami already. Summer nationals is a long haul. Everyone must weight the time and expense to travel and for many Div IA, with no points, isn't worth it.

As I wrote in my previous post, next year will be interesting due to location and no Div I Championships. Probably more west coast strong adult A/B 20 - 40 year old fencers who didn't want to travel all the way to Miami for one Div IA event will go to San Jose.

Happy Summer vacation!!

KD5MDK · 07-09-2007, 12:41 PM

Will it offset the strong A/B 20-40 year old east coast fencers who fancied some time on Miami Beach?

teacup · 07-09-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Will it offset the strong A/B 20-40 year old east coast fencers who fancied some time on Miami Beach?

Who knows...

Imagine who might show up in Hawaii if Summer Nationals were ever able to be there.

Peach · 07-09-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacup

Who knows...

Imagine who might show up in Hawaii if Summer Nationals were ever able to be there.

Mostly people with considerable free cash and plenty of free time.

piste off · 07-09-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacup

As for the original question, many senior and junior fencers with Div I points, who travel a lot and are trying to make the US team, may choose not fence Div IA because points are not given. It is more worthwhile to save time and money and either travel to an international event or just go home early rather than fence Div IA.

BINGO.

The other thing is that those elite guys have a tough competititve season and it is not in their best interest to fence every tournament.

One of our Olympians told me that he was skipping one of the recent World Cups because it was not a Grand Prix, and he was saving himself for that (which was a week or two later). He mentioned the high stress related to tournaments, and that you have to "pick and choose" to be efficient.

Rick