Black anodizing foil barrels?

[slmille4]

Is it legal to black anodize foil barrels in order to prevent an off-target if the lame is touching both the tip and the barrel at the same time when the tip goes off? It seems to be that it would be ok, since this is essentially the same thing that taping the barrel is meant to accomplish.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by slmille4

Is it legal to black anodize foil barrels in order to prevent an off-target if the lame is touching both the tip and the barrel at the same time when the tip goes off? It seems to be that it would be ok, since this is essentially the same thing that taping the barrel is meant to accomplish.

The little I know of anodizing is that the parts go into a solution with the reacting chemicals. How would you prevent the anodizing from getting into places you don't want it? You don't want an insulating coating on the threads or in the holes where the screws are fastened. You have to have a conductive path from the hoop part of the tip to the screws to the barrel and through the threads to the blade.

[slmille4]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

The little I know of anodizing is that the parts go into a solution with the reacting chemicals. How would you prevent the anodizing from getting into places you don't want it? You don't want an insulating coating on the threads or in the holes where the screws are fastened. You have to have a conductive path from the hoop part of the tip to the screws to the barrel and through the threads to the blade.

Little plastic plugs are used to keep the solution out. What do you mean by the hoop part of the tip though?

[HDG]

Originally Posted by slmille4

Is it legal to black anodize foil barrels in order to prevent an off-target if the lame is touching both the tip and the barrel at the same time when the tip goes off? It seems to be that it would be ok, since this is essentially the same thing that taping the barrel is meant to accomplish.

Even if this did work, the rules still require tape (m.13). So you can anodize, but you still have to tape.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by slmille4

Little plastic plugs are used to keep the solution out. What do you mean by the hoop part of the tip though?

For both "French" and "German" tips there is a piece that is in the form of a ring that surrounds the central part of the tip. For "French" type tips, the screws go into the hoop. For "German" type tips, the screws go into a sort of trough of reduced diameter.

For either type, the spring pushes the bottom flange of the tip against the hoop, providing a conductive path from the wire to the button in the cup to the spring to the hoop to the screws to the barrel and back to the blade.

When you depress the tip, you separate the flange of the tip from the hoop, breaking this conductive path and "opening the switch" of the normally closed Foil circuit.

For the anodizing, you would need to put plastic plugs into both sides of the threaded part of the barrel and into the screw holes.

Alternatively, you could anodize in the middle of the manufacturing process and make the threads and the side holes of the barrel after that.

Wait a minute. I thought anodizing was a process used on aluminum. Aren't barrels made of steel?

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by HDG

Even if this did work, the rules still require tape (m.13). So you can anodize, but you still have to tape.

Yes, but functionally the coating treatment would be a backup to the tape and worn tape would be less likely to prevent valid touches.

[parrythis]

Perhaps a little paint on the outside of the barrel would accomplish the same thing a little more easily?

Still, if this is just to backup the tape, it seems like overkill. How often does the tape around the barrel fail?

[erooMynohtnA]

Try a little black nail polish, I'm sure you have some lying around.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by parrythis

Perhaps a little paint on the outside of the barrel would accomplish the same thing a little more easily?

Still, if this is just to backup the tape, it seems like overkill. How often does the tape around the barrel fail?

If you don't check your tape on a regular basis...you;d be surprised.

As for the blade insulation:

m.13 The body of the barrel and the foil blade for a length of 15 cm from the barrel, as well as the pommel or the rear extremity of the handle, must be entirely covered with insulating material (insulating tape, gummed paper, Sellotape, plastic material or varnish).

For me, an identifiable layer of colored nail polish would be sufficient....but tape is easier to replace it you develop a worn spot.

But another reason to just stay with tape...the inside diameter of teh hole i teh test weights is not standardized...too many layers of insulation might prevent it from being pushed up by the spring, resulting in a failed weight test (same thing happens when people put too many tape layers around the barrel).

Just stay with a single layer of tape...it'll be better that way.

[keith]

Originally Posted by parrythis

Still, if this is just to backup the tape, it seems like overkill. How often does the tape around the barrel fail?

It isn't the bulk of the barrel that is the issue - it is the upper surface/edge. This is where there is either no tape coverage, or tape that can quickly get worn down/pushed away.

Clear nail polish is an option as is careful selection of tip.

[brtech]

Tape around the tip fails regularly. I have a special glass reinforced tape I use for the tip and IT fails regularly in normal use.

Any kind of varnish would not stand up to being wacked, and tips are regularly wacked.

When applying tape, you need to be careful to apply it to the edge of the barrel, no more, no less.

Depending on the tape, you can usually get two thicknesses on the screws and be okay. Start wrapping the tape just over a screw and keep wrapping, holding the tape taught, and maintaining alignment to the edge of the barrel.

A minor suggestion is to use a scissors to cut the tape for the tip, rather than tearing. Tearing tends to leave little filaments of tape flying out, which can get caught in the gap between the barrel and the tip.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by brtech

Tape around the tip fails regularly. I have a special glass reinforced tape I use for the tip and IT fails regularly in normal use.

Any kind of varnish would not stand up to being wacked, and tips are regularly wacked.

When applying tape, you need to be careful to apply it to the edge of the barrel, no more, no less.

Depending on the tape, you can usually get two thicknesses on the screws and be okay. Start wrapping the tape just over a screw and keep wrapping, holding the tape taught, and maintaining alignment to the edge of the barrel.

A minor suggestion is to use a scissors to cut the tape for the tip, rather than tearing. Tearing tends to leave little filaments of tape flying out, which can get caught in the gap between the barrel and the tip.

But....but....tearing the tape is the final test on the armorer's exam!!!!

(that and your beer of choice...)

[Nmfencer]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

As for the blade insulation:

m.13 The body of the barrel and the foil blade for a length of 15 cm from the barrel, as well as the pommel or the rear extremity of the handle, must be entirely covered with insulating material (insulating tape, gummed paper, Sellotape, plastic material or varnish).

.

Um... didn't they change the scoring system around so you don't have to insulate your pommel/rear extremity? I put a non-insulated grip on a foil I used at the NAC. I had no problems...

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by brtech

A minor suggestion is to use a scissors to cut the tape for the tip, rather than tearing. Tearing tends to leave little filaments of tape flying out, which can get caught in the gap between the barrel and the tip.

I heartily endorse your recommendation about not having tape strands extending above the barrel.

But these strands should have no effect on the weapon recording a touch.

It is the first movement of the tip, the loss of contact between the hoop and the bottom flange of the tip, along with the tip in contact with the opponent's Lame, which causes a valid touch to be registered on the scoring machine.

The tip does not have to contact the top of the barrel for the touch to be registered.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Nmfencer

Um... didn't they change the scoring system around so you don't have to insulate your pommel/rear extremity? I put a non-insulated grip on a foil I used at the NAC. I had no problems...

Yes, but they didn't change the rule. Enforcement is another question.

In the past an uninsulated grip allowed you to ground out the other fencer's touch. Now touching an uninsulated grip (or your guard) to your lamé will make your guard an extension of your lamé (electronically speaking).

[larkmaj]

Does anybody know if that foil tip that's insulated on the inside so as not to require an insulating cup on the wire was also insulated on the outside? I remember it from AC, it was a thin black thing.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

I heartily endorse your recommendation about not having tape strands extending above the barrel.

But these strands should have no effect on the weapon recording a touch.

It is the first movement of the tip, the loss of contact between the hoop and the bottom flange of the tip, along with the tip in contact with the opponent's Lame, which causes a valid touch to be registered on the scoring machine.

The tip does not have to contact the top of the barrel for the touch to be registered.

What happens is that the strands get into the tip. You can sometimes find them wrapped around the inside top of the tip. They are one contributor to sticky tips. It occurs because the tip rotates.