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TipKid · 06-28-2007, 12:14 PM

The difference beetween fencers today and in the past with a high letter ranking.

TipKid · 06-28-2007, 12:23 PM

Well i just feel like it is way to easy these days toget a good letter ranking. I personly could name several people who dont deserve A's but have them on a flook. I got my B my winning a super regional which seems like a good reson for getting one. But when a y 10 has an A when all she or he had to do is stand there and counter attack that tells you two things. One that if that A cant beet this U Y10 fencer he is not deserving of his A and that this y10 fencer isnt either. I have now started to not base fencers off what i think of them not their letter ranking.
I also think this is why fencign has turned to alot of luck these days. Its much better to get a y10 A in your pool then an actually good A fencer.

swordsen · 06-28-2007, 12:25 PM

Sounds like someone is jealous.......

pokey · 06-28-2007, 12:28 PM

As has been said before, letter rankings are at best, a very imprecise measure of skill. They are there for initial seeding purposes and are a high water performance mark of a particular day at a particular tournament at best.

Letter rankings really don't mean a whole lot. And you probably shouldn't be prejudging a fencer one way or another based solely on their letter ranking anyway.

MyrddinsPrecint · 06-28-2007, 12:28 PM

Yes. There are lots of people who don't really fence at the level their rating might indicate.

That's not any different than it's ever been.

The only different thing is that there are more A's now, so more people have A's they don't deserve, where as before people had D's or C's they don't deserve.

This is not a new observation.

The problem is that we haven't yet created a system that does mean something without penalizing people for things we don't want to penalize for them, AND everyone can understand.

dridge · 06-28-2007, 12:33 PM

Let the games begin!

theLuz · 06-28-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipKid

Well i just feel like it is way to easy these days toget a good letter ranking. I personly could name several people who dont deserve A's but have them on a flook. I got my B my winning a super regional which seems like a good reson for getting one. But when a y 10 has an A when all she or he had to do is stand there and counter attack that tells you two things. One that if that A cant beet this U Y10 fencer he is not deserving of his A and that this y10 fencer isnt either. I have now started to not base fencers off what i think of them not their letter ranking.
I also think this is why fencign has turned to alot of luck these days. Its much better to get a y10 A in your pool then an actually good A fencer.

you must be fencing epee (or the new timing in foil has really made it worse than I thought). Try a real weapon and the letters mean something

HDG · 06-28-2007, 01:47 PM

I can't read about this topic often enough!

AndrewH · 06-28-2007, 02:23 PM

wait, a y10 A? wtf?

Capt. Slo-mo · 06-28-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipKid

letter ranking don't mean anything today!

Apparently neither does grammar...

theLuz · 06-28-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Apparently neither does grammar...

that's good. (or is it gooder?)

lurkerdad · 06-28-2007, 04:01 PM

In youth tournaments, the best thing a letter gives you is an advantage in seeding. It ensures you don't have to meet the other good fencers till the DE round.

However, there are no Y10 A's, at least in men's foil. There is one Y12 A and one Y12 B. But I don't think anybody can say that those 2 aren't good since they have points up to junior and even senior NRPS. So I don't really know where the OP is coming from.

jeff · 06-28-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theLuz

Try a real weapon and the letters mean something

You mean, throwing snappy retorts back and forth on f.net? Where's our classification system?!

qatet · 06-28-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff

You mean, throwing snappy retorts back and forth on f.net? Where's our classification system?!

Psst - I think it's those little green boxes over to the left. Most of mine have come from being witty not being useful.

DBGlazer · 06-28-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theLuz

that's good. (or is it gooder?)

Or spelling, for that matter.

mrbiggs · 06-28-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipKid

Well i just feel like it is way to easy these days toget a good letter ranking. I personly could name several people who dont deserve A's but have them on a flook.

So?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipKid

I got my B my winning a super regional which seems like a good reson for getting one.

Well, some would certainly disagree with you there, if you're speaking in terms of the old quality of rankings where the finals at Nationals was a primary way to earn an A.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipKid

But when a y 10 has an A

No Y10 fencers have As.

TipKid · 06-28-2007, 07:03 PM

well i think there should be a system where instead of just having a normal letter like A you should get y12-A and the letter should have to be renewed for every age group. I dont know how this would be done and dont take me wrong i understand that this would be a difficult system to keep organized because each person would have three or even four letters.Yet, this might keep the letter ranking system more true for each fencer.

MyrddinsPrecint · 06-28-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipKid

well i think there should be a system where instead of just having a normal letter like A you should get y12-A and the letter should have to be renewed for every age group. I dont know how this would be done and dont take me wrong i understand that this would be a difficult system to keep organized because each person would have three or even four letters.Yet, this might keep the letter ranking system more true for each fencer.

How do you tell the difference between a y12 C and a Junior D? Which is better, and by how much? Once you age out of a category, do you get to keep the ranking? If someone has more than one rating, do you take the highest or lowest? Do you rank only by the age category?

It turns out that, in the larger scheme, younger kids with really high ratings they don't deserve isn't happening THAT much. The problem that's currently bigger is that Men's Epee has so many A's that it's soon going to become difficult to properly seed them (especially in national competition).

lurkerdad · 06-28-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipKid

well i think there should be a system where instead of just having a normal letter like A you should get y12-A and the letter should have to be renewed for every age group. I dont know how this would be done and dont take me wrong i understand that this would be a difficult system to keep organized because each person would have three or even four letters.Yet, this might keep the letter ranking system more true for each fencer.

Well, that one Y12A right now (and even the Y12 B) has beaten other A's at the Junior and Senior points list. So those two ratings seem pretty true to me.

Now if you're talking about the C's, D's and E's...well you may have a point. A Y10 D or E is probably not as good as Junior E. But a Y12 D is probably already a pretty decent fencer, from what I can see of the current crop.

So do we not give any ratings for Y10's, except maybe if they place at Y12 events? There may be something there. However, there are so few Y10's with any letter ratings anyway (there are 11 in Y10 MF this week, even less with other weapons) that it's probably not worth the hassle of bothering.

fencerwallet · 06-28-2007, 11:34 PM

Last year there was only 1 Y10 MS that had any classification the entire season until SN; after SN only one had a "D". There just are not alot of honest opportunities for Y10 to even get them. The 3-4 Y12MS who have classifications higher than an "E" qualified for and are fencing in Cadet MS, so I would guess they earned them.