quality vs quantity for 1st weapons

[Cookeit]

What would you recommend for my first foil weapons,
should I buy 2 non-FIE good blades like stms,
or go for 1 vniti FIE?


Keep in mind, I am definitely going to stick with the sport.
I have been fencing for about 1 1/2 years but have been mainly using my school's weapons.

[erooMynohtnA]

A lot of that depends on what you're looking for in a weapon. There are differences beyond just price and durability.

What kind of blade do you like? Light, stiff, whippy, heavy, point-heavy, average, responsive, slow?

If you don't care, I recommend the Vniti. It will last a long time, but get more than one weapon. If you can get one FIE weapon or two non-FIE weapons, get the two non-FIE and upgrade later. You need more than one.

One point of advice, don't get a nice blade and put a cheap point on it. Go with a next-gen German or LP GT. Who cares if your blade doesn't break if you have to constantly rewire it.

[Nmfencer]

I've had my STM since I started fencing. Nearly 2 years ago I believe. No trouble with it since. I have become primarily an Epeeist though, so it's not had "intense" use. I have been using it quite a bit lately though. They tend to get soft and whippy. They acquire kinks though, and even when you straighten them out, they will bend back. It's ok for me though, I don't care much, but you might.

I also had a Prieur (spelling?) FIE blade. After the NAC came to town, my club received the Lost and Found stuff. After we waited a few months, we fenced for the unclaimed items. I won that blade, so I'm not entirely sure how much use it had had before I came across it. Although the manufacturing date said 04/06. I fenced with it a few times, and it was extremely whippy. It also had two kinks (when I got it), one in the top section (foible), and one in the bottom (forte), and I could not for the life of me get them out. I received a third kink right in the middle, tried to straighten it on the strip, and it snapped. I believe someone on the review page said "Once they accumulate kinks, they are not long for this world".

Hope I helped!

[SJCFU#2]

Bear in mind that you will need at least two weapons if you intend to compete (as well as two body cords).

[brtech]

I think you can't make that tradeoff.

You need at least 3 reliable weapons. I think nearly any FIE blade can be reliable for certain people, and with others they need a higher grade. I think the STM is a good blade; better than the BG, not as good as the Vnity, in some fencer's hands, a BG is a plenty good enough blade.

I see way too many problems when you only have 2 weapons. One is NOT enough.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Nmfencer

I've had my STM since I started fencing. Nearly 2 years ago I believe. No trouble with it since. I have become primarily an Epeeist though, so it's not had "intense" use. I have been using it quite a bit lately though. They tend to get soft and whippy. They acquire kinks though, and even when you straighten them out, they will bend back. It's ok for me though, I don't care much, but you might.

I also had a Prieur (spelling?) FIE blade. After the NAC came to town, my club received the Lost and Found stuff. After we waited a few months, we fenced for the unclaimed items. I won that blade, so I'm not entirely sure how much use it had had before I came across it. Although the manufacturing date said 04/06. I fenced with it a few times, and it was extremely whippy. It also had two kinks (when I got it), one in the top section (foible), and one in the bottom (forte), and I could not for the life of me get them out. I received a third kink right in the middle, tried to straighten it on the strip, and it snapped. I believe someone on the review page said "Once they accumulate kinks, they are not long for this world".

Hope I helped!

Best way to get kinks out is with a vise and a plumber's pipe wrench. You can focus on putting a slight bend exactly where you want it. You can isolate an inch of blade and have all of your effect there and nowhere else.

There are people who are very skilled at using the ring end of a wrench and I do not deny they can get just the bends they want. But it takes a lot of experience and judgement. The pipe wrench and vise can be used by anyone.

It also is the only way I know of to sideways bends and kinks out. For them, the hard part is getting the blade not to twist in the vise.

[Cookeit]

Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA

What kind of blade do you like? Light, stiff, whippy, heavy, point-heavy, average, responsive, slow?

I would say I want something more on the light/whippy side but doesn't lose its shape after every touch. It would be nice if it didn't kink very much.

So maybe.. medium soft?

I would like to be able to flick, but where I'm at now, many times I go flat, then get hit with the remise. So its not THAT important.

[RebelFencer]

Unless you have a surplus of money, I'd start out with quantity. It takes awhile before you are able to really feel the difference between blades to where they make a significant impact. Now if you can afford them, by all means get the FIE since they really are more durable and better in every way.

[Cookeit]

Well, seeing as how I am soon going to be going to a new club.. $150 a month jeez, my last club was $150 a year, haha.

And I am only a HS fencer with a part time job.

I think I'll go with the "quantity".

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by Cookeit

I would say I want something more on the light/whippy side but doesn't lose its shape after every touch. It would be nice if it didn't kink very much.

So maybe.. medium soft?

I would like to be able to flick, but where I'm at now, many times I go flat, then get hit with the remise. So its not THAT important.

Unfortunately, light and whippy usually go hand in hand with taking bends on hard hits.

Prieur FIE (Chevalier D'auvergne) are very whippy and very light, but they take nasty bends. The non-FIE Prieur are a little stiffer, and just about as durable, honestly.

LP non-FIE are very light and pretty whippy (moreso with age). Durability is ok compared to other non-FIE.

BF Blues (FIE or non-FIE) are light and medium soft. The FIE will last way longer though.

StMs have a medium flex, but they're on the heavy side. Whether FIE or non-FIE, if you're not sure what you're looking for, these are probably your best bet.

However, if you're sure you want light with medium flex, it sounds like the Absolute Fencing FIE blade is right up your alley. It's relatively cheap ($58 bare) for an FIE blade, and it seems to fit exactly what you want.

Also, flicking isn't about the whippiness of the blade. It's the position of the hand.

[Cookeit]

Thanks eroo, I saw that absolute blade in the equipment reviews section, but YOU gave it a bad review =/, are you trying to trick me!?!?!

*hmm I just saw your update on the review, nevermind*







On a side note, you plan on going to the Burton or Remenyik?
Maybe I'll see you there.

[erooMynohtnA]

I haven't been able to update the review due to the equipment section malfunctions.

Everyone tells me that there were a few bad batches the first several times, but they've been worked out by now. Every time I've seen a new one, the blade geometry has changed, which seems to be a good thing, because the people I talk to seem to have improving opinions.

I bet the blades will still take kinks and won't be as durable as a Vniti or StM, but that's just the price of a light blade, regardless of the manufacturer. If you're not hard on your blades, they should give you at least a year of use apiece.

I'd use them, but they're too whippy for me. I prefer very stiff blades. No accounting for personal taste.

I am already preregistered for both tournaments.

[Cookeit]

aha!
Now I understand your screen name =].

[Robert Smith]

Me, I'd go for quality over quantity. But that's because I can be hard on blades. I thought I'd try five non-FIE StM's, instead of one FIE blade. Two of the five broke behind the barrel within a week, none of the other three made it to three months.

So quality over quantity. In terms of what quality, I'm a recent convert to Vniti. Bought two around six months ago, have hardly used one of them and have only once put any kind of unintended bend into the other. They're not what I'd call whippy, but they're likely as flexible as the StM FIE blades.

Shortly before these blades, I was using Prieur FIE blades to replace StM FIE blades. The StM FIEs were okay, lasting maybe six months; but I'd had a couple do the same break-behind-the-barrel trick, and I wanted to avoid that happening again.

The Prieurs are, to my knowledge, the poorest of the FIE blades. They're whippier than the others, but much more short-lived and more prone to unpleasant bending. These specific ones at least were also poorly finished. The edges of the blades are quite sharp, and consequently get chipped and burred with ease; and there's a purple coating that appears to be applied after the threads are cut at tang and tip. The only way I could get a new barrel on was to crank on an old, worn-out barrel first to cut through the coating. Same at the other end; I had to find an old well-worn hex nut to force down the thread, and even then it was hard work even with a big key.

So, if you're easy on blades, you're more likely to get a good run from cheap ones. If you're hard on them, go for a good solid FIE blade as your primary, and maybe a couple of cheap ones as back-up. You could trim a few bucks off the overall cost by fully mounting two, but keeping the third wired but unmounted. It's only a couple of minutes to dismantle and reassemble when the need arises.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Robert Smith

I can be hard on blades. I thought I'd try five non-FIE StM's, instead of one FIE blade. Two of the five broke behind the barrel within a week, none of the other three made it to three months...

The StM FIEs were okay, lasting maybe six months; but I'd had a couple do the same break-behind-the-barrel trick, and I wanted to avoid that happening again.

Not your fault; I had this problem and I keep hearing about StM's breaking there.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

New rules for the fools: No more than half of your fencing expenses should be blades. If more than half your expenses are blades, then you're buying some sticks that are too ****ing expensive for your level of competition.

Get the STM Non-FIE.

Don't ask, just do it.

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

New rules for the fools: No more than half of your fencing expenses should be blades. If more than half your expenses are blades, then you're buying some sticks that are too ****ing expensive for your level of competition.

Get the STM Non-FIE.

Don't ask, just do it.

Does this apply to epee only or foil and saber as well? In foil and saber costs are higher, and foil blades generally last longer, while Saber blades are way cheaper.

I think it's good advice in all weapons, though.

[catwood1]

I high discourage getting an absolute FIE light. The heavy are ok (and still not very heavy) but the light take crazy bends and tend to be a bit brittle. a clubmate of mine has an Absolute light that he can bend the blade UP or DOWN and touch the bell with the point and it will pretty much stay that way untill you de-kink it. I personally think the vnity is a great all around blade thats not too too heavy, and not too too flicky.

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by catwood1

I high discourage getting an absolute FIE light. The heavy are ok (and still not very heavy) but the light take crazy bends and tend to be a bit brittle. a clubmate of mine has an Absolute light that he can bend the blade UP or DOWN and touch the bell with the point and it will pretty much stay that way untill you de-kink it. I personally think the vnity is a great all around blade thats not too too heavy, and not too too flicky.

In foil, I agree with the not-too-flicky part (although they flex too much for me), but it is my understanding that they are very flexible for epee blades. Also, I don't think you can name a heavier blade than a Vniti. BF, BG, Absolute, LP, and Prieur are all lighter. StM is approximately the same weight.