06-13-2007, 08:32 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 233
| Canting (again!)
After reading the responses to my last query I bent both my epees 9 degrees downwards. The hits on the arm seem marginally easier and an unexpected benefit is that the guard hides the bottom of my hand better (I was giving a few touches there from time to time).
Now the question is: Should one stop there or should one bend the blade slightly to the left (I am right handed)? Leon Paul's page recommend the down and left set for sabre and epee but not specifically for foil. Is there a difference?
How many of you just have a downward set? How many down and sideways? | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
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06-13-2007, 08:56 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Australia
Posts: 397
| I don't think my last surviving epee has a sideways cant, but it's not something I really think about. I haven't played around enough with different configurations to really notice much of a difference.
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They just stand there like this (that's right!),
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06-13-2007, 09:04 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,248
| Yes, cant it inwards. And search, it's been covered a brazillian times in the Armory section.
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06-14-2007, 01:06 AM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 429
| My 2 cents:
(1) Do you fence on the "fighting line"? (In other words, do you line your heels up with your opponents' heels, as if you were both on a narrow balance beam?)
(2) Do you use a pistol grip?
If you answered "yes" to BOTH of these questions, I would recommend NO inward cant, especially on an epee.
If you do not fence strictly on the "fighting line", and/or you use a French grip, then add the inward cant. This is especially true for foil.
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"All things must pass. All things must fade away." - George Harrison
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06-14-2007, 10:33 AM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 343
| a) Do you fence on the "fighting line"?
b) Do you fence foil with a French grip?
If you answered "yes" to BOTH of these questions, I would recommend to get a new coach. | |
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06-14-2007, 11:08 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,202
| just remember canting is a means to an end.
The starting point is the position of your hand when in enguard; the end is when, with your hand in that 'natural'* position, the point waving in the general direction of target. Cant saves you from having to use finger and wrist muscles to point your point at target - it is an aid to generating a relaxed hand position.
*which means there are some national differences in what is a reasonable cant. If you fence foil from tierce you need a lot of cant.
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the will of all things is to continue to be as they are | |
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06-14-2007, 02:49 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Live in Maine...Fence in New Hampshire
Posts: 1,066
| I have more cant than anyone I know (foil), and I have it because the weapon simply feels BETTER and more balanced that way. I cant both down and in. | |
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06-14-2007, 07:48 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 948
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crquack  After reading the responses to my last query I bent both my epees 9 degrees downwards. The hits on the arm seem marginally easier and an unexpected benefit is that the guard hides the bottom of my hand better (I was giving a few touches there from time to time).
Now the question is: Should one stop there or should one bend the blade slightly to the left (I am right handed)? Leon Paul's page recommend the down and left set for sabre and epee but not specifically for foil. Is there a difference?
How many of you just have a downward set? How many down and sideways? | To a great extent, this depends on how you fence: what kind of actions you make most use of, how you prefer to position yourself with respect to your opponent, and so on. I cant both my foils and my epees down and in, because that set is, IMO, most conducive to fine pointwork. On the other hand, if you rely heavily on beats, you don't want too much inward set, because that makes it harder to make a clean, sharp contact with the opponent's blade. I'd still have a little inward set, in that case, but not as much as I'd have if I were going to be relying on evasive pointwork.
The in-and-down set presupposes that you will be usually be holding your weapon with your hand somewhat supinated -- thumb turned out a bit (to 1 or 2 o'clock, for a right-handed fencer). I thoroughly endorse this position, but I'm well aware that there are other coaches who teach you to hold the thumb at 12:00, particularly with a pistol grip. They're wrong, of course  , but if you are going to carry your weapon like that, then I don't think you should have any inward cant. | |
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06-14-2007, 09:29 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,076
| [quote=Goldgar;566446]I'm well aware that there are other coaches who teach you to hold the thumb at 12:00, particularly with a pistol grip. They're wrong, of course QUOTE]
Yeah, silly guys... don't they know 11:00 is the way to go?
Rick
BTW: The Miami Tourist Board is very, very happy!!!
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"Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."
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06-15-2007, 11:14 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 343
| Ask noodle about his foil cant. You will never think that any other weapon has too much of a cant ever again. | |
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06-16-2007, 02:28 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 948
| Quote:
Originally Posted by piste off BTW: The Miami Tourist Board is very, very happy!!! | They're looking forward to a few hilarious moments. | |
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06-16-2007, 03:25 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,151
| If you extend with a broken wrist and cant fix it
Then cant your blade heavily inward not down.
FF | |
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06-17-2007, 04:31 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 223
| I cant my sabre blade to the right and back.
No one expects that. | |
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06-20-2007, 12:28 PM
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#14 | | Feline Groovy
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tidewater VA
Posts: 685
| Quote:
Originally Posted by The Terran I cant my sabre blade to the right and back.
No one expects that. | Ah yes, the 'Spanish Inquisition' cant... | |
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06-21-2007, 03:59 AM
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#15 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 22,767
| Well, he IS a foilist, so he's used to torture. 
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