Fencing Injury - Anyone have this?

[seltzerwater]

I have been experiencing pain in my ankles recently. (It actually hurts after practicing a while.) Is this shin splints? Is it common in fencing? I know a fencers feet take a pounding on the piste but is that what it is from? Thanks in advance for input.

[die Fechterin]

Depends on the kind of pain and where around your ankle. I had tendonitis in my right (back) ankle for over a year. It's easy to mess your ankles up and it's hard to mend them unless you rest them (ie: stop fencing) for a while.

[Monash_Armourer]

You really need to describe the problem in more detail. Does it always hurt? Only when fence? Only after you've fenced the next day? How is your footwork? How hard is your footfall?

OR

Even better, talk to your coach and then your physio (and maybe a podiatrist) because they will be able to tell you whats going wrong and how to solve it far better than anybody else can using this forum to aid your self-diagnosis..

For all the members of this board know, you could in fact actually be pregnate, causing your feet to spread, though fallen arches would happen to be my guess anyway, baby or no...

Once you've talked to your coach/doctor/physio/podiatrist and know what the problem is, then perhaps ask how fencers here have dealt with similar problems, and what has helped them manage/overcome them.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but you need to go about finding out what is going on in a better fashion, your feet will make you regretit if you don't.

[fatfencer]

Fencing is one of those sports that REALLY require stretching. It's really an unhealthy sport as compared to tkd, or tai chi. It's not very symmetrical.

The back leg, at the ankle is forced to bend in a way that is not primary for that joint. So my ankle tends to feel a sense of pressure building all around the ankle.

Not surprisingly it feels great after heavy deep massaging courtesy of therapist and liberal amounts of Kwan Loong Oil. Feels great

I used to get shin splints(something different entirely) when I didnt wear arch supports.

Peter Harmer showed me a way to avoid them entirely. Once you get them they are a ***** to get to go away. Lots of ice and rest and ibuprofen really. Anyways. I'm a bit flat footed so by taping up my arches that muscle that lines the shin doesnt get stretched or torn or inflamed. Again, liberal amounts of kwan loong oil.

I was actually surprised to get shin splints from fencing. Decades of MA and I thought my shins were pretty well done for.

Turns out the body heals itself!!!

Good luck

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Get better shoes.

Strech, take painkillers, get arch supports, talk to a doctor if it really doesn't go away, all of these thing are important......

Most people wear shoes for years after they're completely done in--- people who run regularly should buy a new pair of shoes after 3 months. Most people wear in their pair of sneakers in 6 months to a year. And if you don't have feet problems, wearing shoes past their prime isn't exactly the end of the world. But you have enough pain to post to a messageboard, so that's not likely.

Before I got custom orthotics and stabils (and was still fencing sabre), my ankles would give out on a regular basis. Not really any pain-- I would just FALL. (Most notably in the middle of a bout with Tim Morehouse)(Most potentially dangerously JUST before I was about to cross a busy street). My ankles are, in fact, so weak that I haven't ever sprained them--- they don't fight the force, they accept it and give out. It's the one good thing.....

Whenever my feet start hurting, I realize I either need new sneakers to walk around in, or I need new fencing shoes.

Get something with cushioning, probably, which probably means you'll need a raquetball shoe. I reccommend Stabils, but I suppose other shoes exist.....

[jbenjamin]

i had trouble with my ankles too (well, ankle actually-my front/right ankle)
I suggest you go down to the nearest pharmacy and get an ankle brace. wear every time you fence and after everytime, after you finish fencing, make sure you ice it.. it's important to have it checked by a doctor also though..

[Piranha]

I have sprained both ankles while fencing at different times in the past (eversion sprains). If you have weak ankles, I recommend that you both tape and wear a brace (I've never found a brace to be enough) any time you practice. Icing and ibuprofen are also critical.

I have also recently been having pains in the inside of my back ankle when I go for toe touches. Does anyone have advice on what to do about that?

[D'Artag-NOT]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Before I got custom orthotics . . .

Yes, that was the route I wound up taking too (and years after I should have), and it was ankle pain that finally sent me to the podiatrist. (Ankle pain in my back foot, which is also the one that pronates the most.)

I agree with the posters that say to hie thee to a doctor. Pain is a signal that something is wrong, and the person who can help you best is someone who can actually examine the ankle in question. At least ask your coach or a trainer, but better yet, a doctor.

I personally wear tennis/court shoes for fencing, since New Balance--the only manufacturer who makes athletic shoes narrow enough for my feet--doesn't make a fencing shoe.

[Shi no Tenshi]

If it is your ankles, or even if it includes your shins, what you need to do is strengthen those areas, either with therapy or lifting (or both). A brace is meant to be a temporary fix whilst you are strengthening it; if all you do is pop pills, wear a brace and ice it, you will get temporary relief, however you will end up weakening your ankle over the long haul. Unless you have had an injury to the point of a 3rd degree sprain or surgery, do not depend on taping/braces for your solution.

[Redblade]

Ankle weevils.
There is no cure.

[lemon__fresh]

ive also been experiencing strange ankle pain

it seems to start at my inner ankle and continue up to about half/third ways up my inner shin

usually happens during or right after intense fencing

really annoying

[sneakattack]

I've always had really inflexible ankles. I've even gone to physical therapy as a kid without much success. The thing is, my ankles are so strong that they get sprained only in extreme situations, like almost to the point of breaking a bone (which I've never done, except for a toe once when I fell off a bunk bed). However, their inflexibility makes it hard for me to stay in a squat engarde position without lifting my back heel, so all my lunges tend to be off the ball of my foot, and I have to really concentrate on landing heel first with my front foot. Not only do I have a huge callus on the ball of my back foot, but it really starts to hurt after a while. I also have really small wide feet, so I don't have a large selection of shoes to choose from, but I did switch from PBT shoes to AFG shoes (the only two I've found so far that come in size US 2.5) hoping that a wider shoe would help, but it doesn't seem to make that much difference, and since the cheap AFG shoes have almost no padding it counteracts the fact that they're wider. I tried the cheap fix of buying inserts at the drug store, but since I'm limited to the kind that I can cut down to size (apparently children don't need inserts), I had to get the thiner foamy ones, which got torn up by the ball of my foot within a matter of weeks. Anyway, I realize that I'm mostly just whining about my bad genetic luck, but if anyone has had similar experiences or has any ideas about what I should do, besides the obvious of going to a podiatrist and spending tons of money on customized orthotics, please feel free to share. I realize that's the route I'll eventually have to go (once I save enough dough), especially since I have super high arches, but in the meantime my feet really hurt!

[lemon__fresh]

Originally Posted by sneakattack

I have to really concentrate on landing heel first with my front foot.

are you kicking your front foot out and not just lifting your leg up. because im not sure that tight ankles would have anything to do with that

and i wish i could stay on the balls of my feet at all times (although it might be sumwhat painful) but would allow for lighter quicker movments (ala martial arts)

[BraveHardt]

Originally Posted by lemon__fresh

ive also been experiencing strange ankle pain

it seems to start at my inner ankle and continue up to about half/third ways up my inner shin

usually happens during or right after intense fencing

really annoying

I had this exact problem a few years back. There is a muscle directly behind your shin bone that connects to a tendon running around your inner ankle. The tendon connects to your toes. I was able to resolve the issue with a massage. It took about an hour because the muscle that was tight is actually behind your main calf muscle, so it is hard to get at. (Sorry if this is a bit vague, I'm going on memory of what the massage therapist told me)

You can also minimize recurrences of this problem with stretching. A calf stretch against a wall helps (toes on the wall, heel on the floor). Another good stretch is to put the ball of your foot on a bench or chair, push down on your heel and pull up on your toes with your hands.

Still, I'd start with the massage. One trip completely cleared up the issue.

[lemon__fresh]

wow, yea i usually do the calf stretch but i will definatley be trying the other stretch

im hoping massage clears this up, cause its very annoying and hard to find others with a similar condition

so thx!

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by sneakattack

I've always had really inflexible ankles. I've even gone to physical therapy as a kid without much success. The thing is, my ankles are so strong that they get sprained only in extreme situations, like almost to the point of breaking a bone (which I've never done, except for a toe once when I fell off a bunk bed). However, their inflexibility makes it hard for me to stay in a squat engarde position without lifting my back heel, so all my lunges tend to be off the ball of my foot, and I have to really concentrate on landing heel first with my front foot. Not only do I have a huge callus on the ball of my back foot, but it really starts to hurt after a while. I also have really small wide feet, so I don't have a large selection of shoes to choose from, but I did switch from PBT shoes to AFG shoes (the only two I've found so far that come in size US 2.5) hoping that a wider shoe would help, but it doesn't seem to make that much difference, and since the cheap AFG shoes have almost no padding it counteracts the fact that they're wider. I tried the cheap fix of buying inserts at the drug store, but since I'm limited to the kind that I can cut down to size (apparently children don't need inserts), I had to get the thiner foamy ones, which got torn up by the ball of my foot within a matter of weeks. Anyway, I realize that I'm mostly just whining about my bad genetic luck, but if anyone has had similar experiences or has any ideas about what I should do, besides the obvious of going to a podiatrist and spending tons of money on customized orthotics, please feel free to share. I realize that's the route I'll eventually have to go (once I save enough dough), especially since I have super high arches, but in the meantime my feet really hurt!

Get a raquetball shoe, it'll have a lot more padding and be wider. Again, I like Stabils.

And that sounds (to my incredibly unmedically trained brain) like it's more a problem of the muscles in your calves being tight rather than anything actually in your ankles, since I have all of those same problems except I don't sprain my ankles because they're too weak......

Keeping your heels doesn't seem (to me) to have a whole lot to do with your ankles as much as it does with your calves........

My feet also look like I have really high arches when I'm looking at the bottom of my feet, but collapse when I stand on them.

[D'Artag-NOT]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

My feet also look like I have really high arches when I'm looking at the bottom of my feet, but collapse when I stand on them.

Ah. Another inhabitant of my planet.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by D'Artag-NOT

Ah. Another inhabitant of my planet.

People don't believe me when I tell them I have flat feet. Of course, I didn't really realize it until the podiatrist realized he had to spend about 4 times more time with me than he expected, and about 8 times more time with me than the standard 20 year old female.......

[sneakattack]

Originally Posted by lemon__fresh

are you kicking your front foot out and not just lifting your leg up. because im not sure that tight ankles would have anything to do with that

Yeah, some of it is mental and I just have to concentrate on doing it properly. When I'm walking around normally I usually go heel first, but I've noticed that when I run, I go toe first. Part of that has to do with being a dancer and gymnast as a kid where pointed toes are emphasized, especially while leaping, and I always got points taken off when showing horses English style because I had a hard time keeping my heels down. It is really hard to flex my ankles though. When I hold my foot off the ground and flex as hard as I can, it's still pretty much perpendicular to the floor.

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Get a raquetball shoe, it'll have a lot more padding and be wider. Again, I like Stabils.

Hmm...I don't think they come in my size, certainly not the Stabils as far as I can tell. When I search on Zappos for a racquetball shoe, this is the only one that comes up anywhere near my size:

http://www.zappos.com/n/p/dp/2436741...omen/s/28.html

and who knows if it's wide enough...

I usually have to buy kids shoes since women's sizes don't often go down to a size 4, but more often than not kids shoes are too narrow.

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

And that sounds (to my incredibly unmedically trained brain) like it's more a problem of the muscles in your calves being tight rather than anything actually in your ankles, since I have all of those same problems except I don't sprain my ankles because they're too weak......

Keeping your heels doesn't seem (to me) to have a whole lot to do with your ankles as much as it does with your calves........

That could be. I haven't been to a physical therapist in many years, but back then they seemed to think it was the tendons in my ankles that were too tight. My grandmother thought I should have an operation, but my parents refused, which I think was wise on their part. Physical therapy and better shoes and support corrected most of the problem.

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

My feet also look like I have really high arches when I'm looking at the bottom of my feet, but collapse when I stand on them.

My arches don't go down hardly at all when I stand on them, and since my feet are so small the arch takes up half my foot so that between the ball of my foot and the heel, it's basically all arch. I usually have to buy shoes without arch support or take them out because the arch support hardly ever lines up with the one on my foot.

Heh, I'm making my feet sound freakish! They really don't look that weird. Most people look at them and go, "Awww...they're so cute!" or even more annoyingly, "I wish I had feet like yours!"