06-12-2007, 11:15 AM
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#1 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,014
| MF Gran Prix in Havana
Gerek Meinhardt takes 7th. Stands on podium with the likes of Sanzo (1st), Baldini, Guyart, Le Pechoux, Kleinbrink, Vanni and Marcilloux (bunch of French and Italians, then a teenage asian-american from SF). He's also the youngest fencer in the event, the only one born in the 1990s.
This event starts the qualifying count towards the 2008 Olympics, so it's a great start for Gerek. He will also qualify for the 2007 Senior National Team. He will be the first ever to make the MF hat trick of Cadet, Junior and Senior National Teams in the same season. (Doris Willette, another Bay Cup fencer, did it in WF several years ago.)
Other US fencers:
Tiomkin - 13th
Dupree - 23rd
Getz - 47th
Chamley-Watson - 49th
Horanyi - 52
Sugimoto - 83rd
Parkins - 89th
And this event is no light-weight. The top 32 is made up of the who's who of men's foil. They're now off to Venezuela.
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Last edited by edew; 06-12-2007 at 11:19 AM.
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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06-12-2007, 11:30 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,076
| That is really outstanding.
It is impressive the number/quality of young fencers the US has lately. Really bodes well for the future (and it appears, the present!).
Rick
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06-12-2007, 12:06 PM
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#3 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,014
| Just wait until our Y10 and Y12 fencers get out of their diapers and start fencing more. The Bay Area's fencing is quite strong, especially in foil. I'll give WF another 3 years before it gets super tough. ME is already pretty strong. WE needs about another 5-6 years, and that's only if more clubs dedicate themselves to producing WE fencers.
MS and WS in the Bay Area is constantly getting stronger, but without top fencers to practice against, it's hard. I think we will be able to make it work, though. Just throw more bodies there to fence against.
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06-12-2007, 12:23 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,076
| Quote:
Originally Posted by edew  Just wait until our Y10 and Y12 fencers get out of their diapers ... | They just need to establish Y70 and Y80 age categories, so they rest of us have some place to go when we start wearing them again.
Rick
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"Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."
My pet Monkey on an IBM selectric
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06-12-2007, 12:55 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Coast
Posts: 2,338
| Quote:
Originally Posted by edew Gerek Meinhardt takes 7th. (snip) This event starts the qualifying count towards the 2008 Olympics, so it's a great start for Gerek. He will also qualify for the 2007 Senior National Team. He will be the first ever to make the MF hat trick of Cadet, Junior and Senior National Teams in the same season. | Good for Gerek! He's a great kid, and a lot of fun on international trips.
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06-12-2007, 04:40 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: near Boston
Posts: 3,034
| Quote:
Originally Posted by piste off They just need to establish Y70 and Y80 age categories, so they rest of us have some place to go when we start wearing them again.
Rick | Maybe Y80. Y70? I am Y70.
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06-12-2007, 04:57 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,076
| Quote:
Originally Posted by fencerbill Maybe Y80. Y70? I am Y70. | We'll... I guess it Depends on the individual.
Rick
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"Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."
My pet Monkey on an IBM selectric
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06-12-2007, 05:13 PM
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#8 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: Redwood Citay, Kalifornia
Posts: 3,168
| Beating Behr and Deev in the same tournament in 15 is no small feat. Congrats!
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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06-12-2007, 05:15 PM
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#9 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,014
| Quote:
Originally Posted by piste off They just need to establish Y70 and Y80 age categories, so they rest of us have some place to go when we start wearing them again.
Rick | Once we start getting the numbers, we'll start having V50s and V60s in the Bay Area. We'll also make those events mixed + women's or men's + women's instead of the current mixed format. Once we get the numbers...
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06-12-2007, 06:36 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 286
| I know there is no real answer, but here goes anyway--what percentage of Gerek's success is due to Greg, and how much is due to Gerek being a fencing prodigy? | |
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06-12-2007, 08:48 PM
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#11 | | I am a man... A MEGA MAN!
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Carolina über Alles
Posts: 2,593
| Being a prodigy means nearly unlimited capacity for improvement and that you learn skills a lot quicker than the vast majority. Someone still has to teach those skills.
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06-12-2007, 11:55 PM
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#12 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: Redwood Citay, Kalifornia
Posts: 3,168
| How about Gerek's dedication and will to improve?
That has to count for something, probably more than being a prodigy or having a great coach.
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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06-13-2007, 02:32 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 705
| More impressive than either Deev or Behr is Lei, who took 3rd at World Championships, has won a Grand Prix and is 6th in the world.
About effort and will to improve: Sure, he does have that, but I have to say, he doesn't train that amazingly hard. He runs, and takes a lot of lessons, but he isn't particularly the physically hardest-working member of the club, by my observation.
About apportioning credit: I'd say that very few coaches in the country are good enough to take even Gerek to where he is now. Similarly, even given whatever coach you want, very few students are good enough to get where Gerek is. I suspect the question was aimed less at questioning Gerek's prodigy-ness than questioning Greg's coaching mojo, because Gerek towers so far over Greg's other students. I have a fair amount of faith in Greg's coaching mojo. M-team fencers even aside from Gerek have done fairly well-- what other club has a 13-year-old and a 12-year-old both make the top 24 in Div I? | |
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06-13-2007, 03:19 AM
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#14 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,014
| I would also say that there's more to Greg's teaching than Gerek's learning. The better way to look at it is not looking at Gerek, but others like Allison Henvick, Armin Chan and others like them. They're definitely no prodigies and they took a while to get good (although Henvick got good at about the same time Gerek did). Armin used to be el stupido and tres mediocre. He came out of the pools seeded #1 in the JMF at JOs this past February. He has the ability to do much better, but he is still his worst opponent (he beats himself more than his opponent does).
Greg's taken a bunch of people who appear to be not so good and made them quite good. True, there's been some who never did excel, but from my recollection, they are far and few between.
From my limited abilities as a coach, I think the main strength of a coach is dedication and desire to see the students improve. Those who don't really care won't get them anywhere. Those who care will make things happen. Fencing is a very transparent sport: it's pretty clear what has to be done to make a fencer better. Do this technique, do that technique. Go faster, go slower. But the coach has to make the suggestions and train the fencer to do them. Not hard, but requires dedication to do the training regimen.
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06-13-2007, 05:08 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
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Posts: 224
| Quote:
Originally Posted by edew I would also say that there's more to Greg's teaching than Gerek's learning. ...
From my limited abilities as a coach, I think the main strength of a coach is dedication and desire to see the students improve. Those who don't really care won't get them anywhere. Those who care will make things happen. Fencing is a very transparent sport: it's pretty clear what has to be done to make a fencer better. Do this technique, do that technique. Go faster, go slower. But the coach has to make the suggestions and train the fencer to do them. Not hard, but requires dedication to do the training regimen. | To be recognized as a "great" coach, you have to produce great (or semi-great) fencers. This is partly a function of the number of fencers who come your way who have the potential to be great, (or at least semi-great: maybe the top percent of competitive fencers of any age group or weapon -- as opposed to quite good ones. Now, this top 1% of fencers is widely scattered around the country. And they tend to be funneled toward the already recognized top coaches.
So if you're not an already recognized top coach, it's seriously hard to get recognized as one. | |
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06-13-2007, 06:16 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 715
| Im going with EDew on this one. Garek is a great fencer, because he has a great coach, and has the determination to be a great fencer. I dont coach in Greg's style, but i have worked with coaches who rant and i know that for some fencers(myself included) it gets the best results There was a bust of Ralph Faulkner at westside fencing center that had a plaque on it that said "champions are made not born" While you might have the potential to be a champion, without great coaching you wont be one.
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06-14-2007, 12:26 AM
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#17 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
| Congratulations to both Gerek and Greg for this exceptional accomplishment.
One question, if Greg were a Russian, Hungarian or Italian coach would you have asked the same question. Greg is a very good coach, running a very good program, enough said. | |
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06-14-2007, 10:54 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,478
| VEnue??
What is the venue like in Cuba?
The Momster
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06-15-2007, 02:10 AM
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#19 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,014
| Don't know, but the onsite medical team is top-notch, according to Michael Moore.
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06-15-2007, 06:35 AM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 185
| Quote:
Originally Posted by edew Don't know, but the onsite medical team is top-notch, according to Michael Moore. | Now that's a sicko sense of humor.  | |
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