Just started french gripping

[Carlos37]

I just switched to french from pistol in epee.Any tips to starters on the frenchie?
Thanks

[p1nkp4nther]

I have a friend that did the same - he found that he had slightly less control even though he has very strong hands.

He is a tall guy and the extra reach he gained makes him near untouchable, but he found that he was vulnerable on the hand which was more exposed behind the guard (because he grips it so far back). Therefore the position of his guard with relation to his point and the opponent is very important to make sure his hand is protected.

Seems rather obvious, but I hope it helps nonetheless.

[veeco]

Originally Posted by Carlos37

I just switched to french from pistol in epee.Any tips to starters on the frenchie?
Thanks

Don't be afraid to attack. The reach you gain from posting is useful there too, not only on the counter attack.

Learn to control your point and your blade with your fingers. One of the greatest advantages of a French grip is that it has a sort of organic feel in your hand.

Try different ways of holding your grip, to see what works best for you. There are people who prefer to hold their grip very tightly, and others who hold it very loosely, with or without an index finger pointed towards the inside of the bell. Whatever you decide, remember that the middle finger, ring finger and pinky are what you use to move your point.

Similarly, experiment with different cants on your blade.

Work on tempo, distance, and simple actions first. Good footwork and good tempo is crucial to fencing with a French grip.

If someone tries to take your blade, let them do it, and remise. Remise is your friend.

[telkanuru]

Build hand strength.

You should also strengthen your hand.

Tangentially, you should also make the muscles in your hand stronger.

[grotto]

remember french is about being subtle, essentially not being there when they try to find your blade, not big strength movements, so if your game has been all about "overpowering" you have alot of tactical rethinking to do.

[piste off]

Originally Posted by veeco

Good footwork and good tempo is crucial to fencing with a French grip.

True, fencing with a french grip puts a premium on footwork. A strong hand is a requirement, but if you don't have the wheels your game will suffer.

Interesting comment about the remise... I am not sure that I am there with you. The last thing that I want is someone to take my blade and I'll do whatever it takes to not "let them do it."

Rick

[veeco]

Fencing with a French grip is a lot like doing Judo. You use your opponent's strength to your advantage. Having a supple hand can help a lot with ceding parries. It can also be of a great help when your blade is taken, because you will be able to remise faster. Try holding your grip really tight, getting someone to beat on it, and remise. Now try again while holding your grip more loosely. See the difference? That's what I was talking about.

[dridge]

Originally Posted by veeco

There are people who prefer to hold their grip very tightly, and others who hold it very loosely, with or without an index finger pointed towards the inside of the bell. Whatever you decide, remember that the middle finger, ring finger and pinky are what you use to move your point.

I almost always agree with veeco, and in principle, I can support almost everything in his post.

However, I believe that using the french grip with the "index finger pointed towards the inside of the bell" is somewhat unsafe. Brisk bell to bell contact may force the guard against the outstretched finger, resulting in a fracture. It's a risk that should not be ignored.

From a technical standpoint, I try to keep a light hand and to use the index finger as a fulcrum. I too control the point with the middle, ring, and small fingers.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by dridge

However, I believe that using the french grip with the "index finger pointed towards the inside of the bell" is somewhat unsafe. Brisk bell to bell contact may force the guard against the outstretched finger, resulting in a fracture. It's a risk that should not be ignored.

That's actually a really good point, and I can't remember off the top of my head how you hold yours, but what about angling the index finger slightly, or perhaps bending it a bit? If it is locked straight, then an impact could be very damaging to it (and honestly, if it were bent to one side or another, it could be damaging for different reasons) but keeping it straight and with a bit of bend in the knuckles seems like it would cause the finger to continue to bend normally, minimizing the risk of injury.

However, I'm not one of the experienced frencers here, so I'll leave it to you, veeco, telk and rick to confirm or deny my supposition.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by veeco

Don't be afraid to attack. The reach you gain from posting is useful there too, not only on the counter attack.

Learn to control your point and your blade with your fingers. One of the greatest advantages of a French grip is that it has a sort of organic feel in your hand.

Try different ways of holding your grip, to see what works best for you. There are people who prefer to hold their grip very tightly, and others who hold it very loosely, with or without an index finger pointed towards the inside of the bell. Whatever you decide, remember that the middle finger, ring finger and pinky are what you use to move your point.

Similarly, experiment with different cants on your blade.

Work on tempo, distance, and simple actions first. Good footwork and good tempo is crucial to fencing with a French grip.

If someone tries to take your blade, let them do it, and remise. Remise is your friend.

Honestly, a lot of what you say here can be applied to fencing with a pistol as well... good footwork, tempo and sentiment du fer are RARELY downsides to a fencer's game, no matter what kind of grip they use.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Build hand strength.

You should also strengthen your hand.

Tangentially, you should also make the muscles in your hand stronger.

Agreed.

Having the firepower to flick or beat with a french grip can make the difference.

[piste off]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

That's actually a really good point, and I can't remember off the top of my head how you hold yours, but what about angling the index finger slightly, or perhaps bending it a bit? If it is locked straight, then an impact could be very damaging to it (and honestly, if it were bent to one side or another, it could be damaging for different reasons) but keeping it straight and with a bit of bend in the knuckles seems like it would cause the finger to continue to bend normally, minimizing the risk of injury.

However, I'm not one of the experienced frencers here, so I'll leave it to you, veeco, telk and rick to confirm or deny my supposition.

dridge makes a good point... but that is probably not an issue if you pommel since you are way further back.

I never liked pointing out the index finger, but prefer holding it more like Drew said. But, a good fencer that you both know (A.A.) suggested that I do it. With a conventional grip, I thought that strength was lost. Since I switched to the LP grip, I found myself doing it with very little loss of control (not even sure why I am doing it, it may be a bad habit forming).

I am afraid of someone tagging it, though (ouch).

Rick

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by grotto

remember french is about being subtle, essentially not being there when they try to find your blade, not big strength movements, so if your game has been all about "overpowering" you have alot of tactical rethinking to do.

It seems to work OK for me :-)

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

It seems to work OK for me :-)

Not the last time you fenced me it didn't.

[veeco]

Originally Posted by dridge

I almost always agree with veeco, and in principle, I can support almost everything in his post.

However, I believe that using the french grip with the "index finger pointed towards the inside of the bell" is somewhat unsafe. Brisk bell to bell contact may force the guard against the outstretched finger, resulting in a fracture. It's a risk that should not be ignored.

From a technical standpoint, I try to keep a light hand and to use the index finger as a fulcrum. I too control the point with the middle, ring, and small fingers.

Not saying that it's not dangerous, just pointing out what other international level fencers do.

[veeco]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

Honestly, a lot of what you say here can be applied to fencing with a pistol as well... good footwork, tempo and sentiment du fer are RARELY downsides to a fencer's game, no matter what kind of grip they use.

The point that I was making was just that fencing with a French grip doesn't always require to rethink your game completely.

You can apply technique X equally well with a French or a pistol, as long as you are doing it the right way for that grip.

As an example that proves that tempo and distance _are_ much more critical if you're fencing with a French: if you try to bind your opponent's blade, you will have to have the exact, perfect distance when you do so, because the lack of leverage of your French grip has to be compensated by perfect distance. With a pistol, it's OK to be a little off, because you will have the possibility to apply more force through the hand and wrist to compensate. With a French, there is no way to compensate in that case. You have to be perfect.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

Not the last time you fenced me it didn't.

Unfortunately, it only works when I do it right.