Rewiring Foil Blades

[jbenjamin]

I just went to a recent tournament where both my electric foils conked out on me... I actually got carded and now, I'm told that I need to rewire them.. How the heck do you rewire foil blades??!!

Thanks.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by jbenjamin

I just went to a recent tournament where both my electric foils conked out on me... I actually got carded and now, I'm told that I need to rewire them.. How the heck do you rewire foil blades??!!

Thanks.

First you need to determine if a rewire is actually necessarry. Give a detailed idea of the error you got....sometimes it's not a rewire, but something much easier to fix.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by jbenjamin

I just went to a recent tournament where both my electric foils conked out on me... I actually got carded and now, I'm told that I need to rewire them.. How the heck do you rewire foil blades??!!

Thanks.

How to rewire fencing blades - This is an extensive article by Dave Neevel and is actually 14 pages long!

There are several threads in the forum covering rewiring blades, but this is a really good article/resource.

Craig

[jbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

First you need to determine if a rewire is actually necessarry. Give a detailed idea of the error you got....sometimes it's not a rewire, but something much easier to fix.

there was an armourer there but he was also a coach-so, he had to stay with his students and he only had time to diagnose my foil problems..

[pokey]

How did they conk out on you? Spring failure? Repeated white light? No lights at all?

[remise]

If you are the type of person that needs pictures along with your instructions, go to the Leon Paul website. It's illustrated there.

But check first to see if 'conking out' means your foils are really dead. As your coach to help you verify or someone who is knowledgable at your club.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by pokey

How did they conk out on you? Spring failure? Repeated white light? No lights at all?

Exactly...."conked out" tells an armorer exactly nothing about the problem.....details man, details.

[jbenjamin]

Originally Posted by pokey

How did they conk out on you? Spring failure? Repeated white light? No lights at all?

both white lights and no lights...

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by jbenjamin

both white lights and no lights...

The white light could be any number of things...broken wire, loose barrel/grip/socket connection....even corrosion on the spring.

NO light means the circuit's not breaking. you could be grounding in the barrel, excess wire could be hanging off the socket and touching the bracket or guard, etc.

You REALLY need to give some details dude...the more the better for armorers...especially when we're on line and don;t have the weapon in our hands.

[pokey]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

NO light means the circuit's not breaking. you could be grounding in the barrel, excess wire could be hanging off the socket and touching the bracket or guard, etc.

Not to threadjack, but to threadjack. Once you've identified that the problem is in the weapon, how do you diagnose where in the weapon the problem is? (e.g. socket, wire continuity, tip, etc) Do you just take it apart one item at a time?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by pokey

Not to threadjack, but to threadjack. Once you've identified that the problem is in the weapon, how do you diagnose where in the weapon the problem is? (e.g. socket, wire continuity, tip, etc) Do you just take it apart item at a time?

Plug it in to a good test box (ideally on a regular test bos, or a Dan DeChaine test box...but in a pinch you can usa an ohmmeter)

make sure your test cord/body cord is in good working order as well (too many times I've has an error on a weapon that turned out to be in the test cord).

Presuming this is a weapon that WAS functioning normally...and you have white lights or an open circuit constantly or on a beat...

First, check to see that all the connections are tight...any loose barel, grip, or socket could result in a white light/breaking of the circuit.

Check the fencer's cord also...if it's an Uhlmann or Prieur type the cages around teh pins may have become smushed down and aren't making good contact

grab the guard and wiggle the grip. if it's even a tiny bit loose...tighten it (make SURE the wire is lined up with the notch in the nose of the grip)

Throw a wrench or screwdriver on the wire/socket connection. If it's loose, tighten it

Check the barrel...NOTE even if it feels tight by hand, you might wanna throw a wrench on it anyway...sometimes they FEEL tight, but are still a quarter turn loose...that's sometimes enough for a white light on a beat.

If you still have a white light...something else is breaking the circuit.

Undo the wire/socket connection...the wire could've broken and it's only the spaghetti that's holding it together.

Look carefully for an actual break in the wire in the groove.

If you see no breaks there (and you've reconnected the wire to the socket), open the pont and remove the tip and spring. insert a jewelers screwdriver and ut the blade on teh metal cap inside the wire cup....then touch the side of the screwdriver to the barrel...this will simulate the connection between the tip and the blade and close the circuit.

move teh screwdriver around inside teh barrel...keeping those 2 points of contact. If you STILL have no circuit or if it establishes and breaks while you;re moving the cup around, the break's under the base of teh barrel or the bade of teh wire cup.....rewire time.

If you have a good closed circuit an it will not break...something's shorting between the B line (wire) and the C line (the blade)

Look to see if you have any excess wire hanging off the socket that's touching the bracket or guard...if so, get rid of that excess.

You could also be crushing the wire under the nose of the grip, or it could be grounding out under the barrel. if it's under grip, udo it and make sure the wire's not getting caught. if the barrel, back it off a turn and then tighten it again...it may pop back into place.

in both cases, you MAY get lucky and the wire may remain intact....if not, rewire time.

The tip could also be durty....take it apart and run a q-tip through it with some rubbing alcohol, then blow it out. At the same time, sand off both ends of the spring.

More as I think of it..or other armorers respond.

THIS is why we ask for so much information....

[jbenjamin]

ok-here are the details:

foil A is French wired-you plug it on-it works fine, you test on your opponent, it works fine, but when you start fencing, if it's beat by your opponent, it registers off-target. i took foil A to an armourer and he took it apart and said it needed re-wiring. he just couldn't rewire it himself because he's also a coach and is coaching his students.

foil B is german wired and when you plug it on there is NO lights at all.. it's like it isn't even there. before that time, it was working ok.. "armourer" didn't have time to work on foil B so I don't know what the problem is.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by jbenjamin

ok-here are the details:

foil A is French wired-you plug it on-it works fine, you test on your opponent, it works fine, but when you start fencing, if it's beat by your opponent, it registers off-target. i took foil A to an armourer and he took it apart and said it needed re-wiring. he just couldn't rewire it himself because he's also a coach and is coaching his students.

That means something is loose or there's a break in the wire somewhere in the tip. See my above post for how to determine which one it is. The armorer should've told you WHY it needed a rewire, just for future info.

foil B is german wired and when you plug it on there is NO lights at all.. it's like it isn't even there. before that time, it was working ok.. "armourer" didn't have time to work on foil B so I don't know what the problem is.

Something's shorting the B and C lines together, meaning the circuit can;t break properly. you could have had a bit of wire come loose i the groove, get stripped and it's shorting against the blade, you could've tightened the grip or barrel and the wire's grounding out against the blade or guard, or the spring could use some sanding.

On either blade, did you do ANYTHING to them between the time they worked properly and the time they did not?

[jbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

On either blade, did you do ANYTHING to them between the time they worked properly and the time they did not?

foil A: I changed the springs on foil A before the competition and before that, the wire was coming out at the groove so i had to place it back in and glue it back (using nail polish and krazy glue)
foil B: I assembled foil B by myself. I ordered the blade from Triplette. i didn't fool around with the tip in any way.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by jbenjamin

foil A: I changed the springs on foil A before the competition and before that, the wire was coming out at the groove so i had to place it back in and glue it back (using nail polish and krazy glue)
foil B: I assembled foil B by myself. I ordered the blade from Triplette. i didn't fool around with the tip in any way.

Hmmm....on foil A it sounds like if there;s a wire break, it's at the base of the cup and happened during fencing.

On foil B...the type of blade doesn't matter...did it EVER work properly?

[jbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

On foil B...the type of blade doesn't matter...did it EVER work properly?

yes, but only for 1 bout.

[brtech]

I'm betting that foil B has the insulation under the handle crushed and shorted. Take the handle off and look at the spaghetti. It should be in good shape and pushed up into the wide part of the groove.

It's also possible that it's shorted on the socket with the insulation not all the way up to the contact.

[JMcC]

Originally Posted by brtech

I'm betting that foil B has the insulation under the handle crushed and shorted. Take the handle off and look at the spaghetti.

For folks new to rewiring (and there are always such in this forum - as there should be), we should explain that "spaghetti" refers to the thin, flexible plastic tubing that's slid over the wire itself to protect it; covering it from where it comes out of the groove all the way to its attachment to the screw post next to the grip.

When I first heard the term I had no idea what was being referred to.

[jbenjamin]

the grip is too tight; i already loosened it and fixed the position of the wire but i have no tester to see if my foil now works properly... i still have to check that part out..

[brtech]

Did you take the handle and the pad all the way off and look at the wire carefully? Is the insulation (spaghetti tube) intact? If it was caught under the handle, you likely have a problem there, and just putting it in the right place (the mouse hole in the handle, which is there for that purpose) may not be enough. Spaghetti tube is cheap. If yours is even questionable, replace it.