Jersey Fencing Explodes

[jeff]

No, not another political struggle in the NJ division, though surely there will be more of that, but an excellent article in the new American Fencing magazine about the surge in fencing in NJ:

http://www.americanfencingmagazine.c...=109&Itemid=45

NIce to have something pleasant to report!

[piste off]

Good article...

Now to make things more interesting, I would submit that the area with the largest growth and absolute potential in NJ is largely untapped: north Bergen County.

My rationale is the following:

1. There is no large club there (like a Medeo or BCAF).
2. There is a huge population.
3. There is a large amount of money (Bergen is typically ranked in the top 5 richest counties in the country, even with some poorer neighborhoods in its southern parts).
4. There is a very large High School fencing community.
5. There is a tendency for parents to get their children into sports and activities.

There is a real good opportunity there for the right coach to start something up. I am not talking about something run out of a church basement, but a real club like Medeo.

Rick

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by jeff

No, not another political struggle in the NJ division,

You had my drama hopes up!

[oiuyt]

The real question (and potential source for a true explosion in Jersey fencing) is how to get those estimated 2,000 non-USFA HS fencers to join the USFA and start competing outside of the 3-months/year scholastic season.

Obviously these are people interested in fencing and athletics. Especially if they're starting to join non-scholastic clubs, they should be primed for USFA membership. What would it take to get them to join? How (if at all) are they being asked? Are many of them even aware of the existence of the USFA or what competitive opportunities it could provide them?

With such a significant, mostly-untapped, resource available, how is addressing this potential not at or near the top of the divisional priority list right now? If it is, what action(s) is/are being taken?

Are there changes that could be made at the national level which would help (ie are there concerns being expressed or reasons for not joining which can only be resolved at the national, rather than divisional level)? How are the dozens of HS coaches being approached to a) make sure THEY are USFA members, b) encourage their athletes to join and compete?

-B

[Epee Scherma]

At one club in my division, those who register as members are simultaneously registered for USFA. It has been a pretty good strategy.

[achilles_heal]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Are there changes that could be made at the national level which would help (ie are there concerns being expressed or reasons for not joining which can only be resolved at the national, rather than divisional level)? How are the dozens of HS coaches being approached to a) make sure THEY are USFA members, b) encourage their athletes to join and compete?

-B

Many hs fencers do not own a set of competition equipment. That is one factor often mentioned by parents of new students: "well, how much will this set me back?" plus they begin to see a future of more taxi rides, more entry fees, lessons, etc. not that parents don't support their kids, but most have been burned at least once by an activity with a big investment (like, a shiny new trumpet or something) only to have the kid lose interest.

Another parental concern is that the student may lose focus on academics. Many parents are fine with their kid taking up a sport, esp a "high achiever" sport like fencing, but get leery of lots of practice, competitions, etc, with no defined beginning or end - and as most of us know, fencing can be a very addicitive endeavor. bla bla bla, but joining the usfa marks a definite escalation of commitment to the sport. To some parents, this means less time and commitment to raise that 4.3 to a 4.6.

so, efforts to recruit hs students that don't fence at private clubs would need to address those, and probably other, issues.

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by achilles_heal

To some parents, this means less time and commitment to raise that 4.3 to a 4.6.

Looks like somebody is not satisfied with straight A+s, lets go for the impossible!

[the maple epee]

I'm just waiting for a mafia team.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

Looks like somebody is not satisfied with straight A+s, lets go for the impossible!

AP Classes are usually given extra weight in grade point averages. I believe the highest gpa in my graduating high school class was a 4.5.

AE

[piste off]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

The real question (and potential source for a true explosion in Jersey fencing) is how to get those estimated 2,000 non-USFA HS fencers to join the USFA and start competing outside of the 3-months/year scholastic season.

Correct me if I am wrong (RITfencing and yourself have more insight into this than I) but a great deal of the HS fencing is in the northern most part of the state (Ramapo, Northern Highlands, Pompton Lakes...). True, it has grown elsewhere, but there still is a lot going on upstate.

One of the issues with the kids crossing over to the USFA is that there is no strong club up there. They can fence at their HS practices, which is limited, but they have to really trek if they want to get serious. That is just not an option for today's time-pressured kids.

There was a bit more crossing over when Santelli's (which was still a trek) and Master's (which was pretty small) existed... but today there is nothing north of Wayne. I suspect today's HS fencer knows about the USFA but has little means to fence outside the 3-month window because the distance to a good club is a barrier).

The rest is there... money, parent support (believe me, nowhere in the state are parents more interested in getting their kids in to activities), etc.

I am sure there are other reasons as have been stated. It just baffles me that a good coach has not jumped on the opportunity up here to start a club. It is the perfect storm...

Rick

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

AP Classes are usually given extra weight in grade point averages. I believe the highest gpa in my graduating high school class was a 4.5.

AE

AP and honors, in my high school.

And AH is right, some of these parents are completely psycho. When I was that age, I saw a girl break into tears on a school bus because she was afraid of what her parents would do... over the one "C" in her report card. Many of these kids are pushed waaaaay to hard by their parents (and honestly, by the schools, their peers and themselves) to be overachievers, and when everyone is an overachiever, they just get pushed harder, because GOD FORBID someone is average in their studies and doesn't get into Harvard at 16 with 42 credits already done.

There was a river of drugs flowing through my old HS, and I think that the phenomenal stress levels this can create are at least part of the reason.

[RITFencing]

Piste off,

Yes, most of the HS fencing is in the Northern half of the state...

Also, many of the kids know about the USFA but aren't really interested in going beyond their high school programs, which is kind of a shame, but it's their choice and they shouldn't be pushed. Many also see HS stuff as "the season" or the norm or whatever, and consider the USFA to be the abnormality. They are going to these clubs so that they can snag that varsity spot or win states or whatever, not to get their A or make a cadet team. JOs seem to be the exception to this, and I'm not sure why, as when you get to the 64 it looks more or less like any other cadet/junior NAC. Perhaps it is because the JO qualifiers are right there in the division, providing a reminder.

I think the big reason, however, is a lack of education. Most kids and parents don't know a whole lot about the USFA and only join to do the JO/SN qualifiers, JOs and Summer Nats if they make it, and the high school championships. At that age, I thought that open tournaments were odd, and that age restricted ones were the norm. Fortunately, this is slowly changing, and more and more high school kids are going to more USFA competitions, being encouraged by high school coaches, club coaches and fencing friends. Many can't afford the kind of time investment required to make a team (those missed mondays and fridays for NACs and WCs can really add up) but the USFA is getting greater exposure. Not quite enough, yet, though... many kids I spoke to seemed to think that getting an E meant someone was a really good fencer, getting a C meant someone was amazing, and an A meant someone was a God (or perhaps made them into a God, I'm not sure.) This is another attitude that is slowly being educated, and I can honestly understand where it comes from. When most of the kids in the league get meh instruction for three months out of the year and don't really fence for the other nine, some kid who's been working in the off season and got their D will tend to be a much better fencer... it's just that most of them don't realize just how far the ladder goes.

[AndrewH]

There is the Bergen Fencing Club, which is actually located in a church basement in Upper Saddle River. It's got a good coach but the population is overwhelmingly young, mostly still in the Y categories. I predict that in the next several years it'll become a force because all those kids are starting so young.

I fenced for Indian Hills HS in Bergen County, and it's true that going to a club from that area takes significant time investment. Masters used to be the club of choice for the Ramapo fencers, but it's all but died out by now. Same with Santelli, which as we all know is long gone. I went to Lilov, which was a 45 minute drive each way to Montclair, and I know some current IHHS fencers go to NJFA in Maplewood, which is about the same driving distance. There's also RSFA in the Willowbrook Mall in Wayne which, while not in Bergen County, is still pretty close (about 20 minutes from my area).

When I turned 17 I could drive myself to the club and back, but before that it was my mom who had to take 4 hours to drive me down, wait around, then drive back. For a lot of parents, especially those with 9-5 jobs, that kind of time committment isn't really possible, not to mention the costs involved with gas, club fees, private lessons, and equipment. I think for a lot of families, doing a sport which is more involved than dropping the kids off at the local rec field for soccer/football practice is seen as impractical.

I dont think there's an easy solution. Opening more clubs would reduce issues with time & transportation, but would also thin out the coaching pool and dilute the quality of practice opponents. Smaller clubs also have less income, and are less able to invest in quality space/technology like grounded strips, electrical equipment and practice dummies. If you ask me, "super clubs" like Medeo and NJFA are the way to go, simply because of the resources they can provide, not to mention economies of scale (inq or another fellow economist can explain that one for everyone). Transportation is and always will be an issue, one that can't be solved completely.

As far as equipment, we ran into a problem my senior year at high school. Membership on the team had grown substantially and the school equipment supply wasn't enough for everyone. We sent home a letter to the parents with information on basic starter sets from Blue Gauntlet and directions, along with advice on what to buy. Many parents chose to spend the ~$100 on a set (not that much compared to what pads/shoes/helmets cost for rec sports). That left enough school issue equipment left over for the kids whose parents didn't want to buy the set. Owning equipment not only makes for a higher retention rate, it makes it easier to join a club. If kids wanted to go to competitions on the weekends, they could sign out a lame/cord/electric weapon. We also handed out USFA membership forms, and explained that it wasn't necessary to fence in HS, but if the kids were still interested by the end of the year and wanted to continue outside of school, they should consider sending it in.

[achilles_heal]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

Looks like somebody is not satisfied with straight A+s, lets go for the impossible!

it is possible. they have weighted gpas. the valedictorian of my niece's class had a gpa of 5.19.

[achilles_heal]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

There is the Bergen Fencing Club, which is actually located in a church basement in Upper Saddle River. It's got a good coach but the population is overwhelmingly young, mostly still in the Y categories. I predict that in the next several years it'll become a force because all those kids are starting so young.

vloka and roberts are a force now, as you know, but maybe some don't.

for a nj sabre location, i would choose monmouth over bergen. it is also very rich, very populous, and even more underserved (for sabre). it has fewer hs programs with fencing, but the growth trend is so strong i think it would be a decent gamble.

it is, despite the ferry, also more removed from nyc, to combat siphoning.

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by achilles_heal

it is possible. they have weighted gpas. the valedictorian of my niece's class had a gpa of 5.19.

High Schools are really messed up, mine had a 20 point scale and after they introduced grade modifiers the max was a 20.33. It was a wheighted scale that took into account sometimes 5 different course levels.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

High Schools are really messed up, mine had a 20 point scale and after they introduced grade modifiers the max was a 20.33. It was a wheighted scale that took into account sometimes 5 different course levels.

This is why most colleges don't give a crap about your GPA and give much more weight to your class ranking, and even more to standardized tests.

[piste off]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

Also, many of the kids know about the USFA but aren't really interested in going beyond their high school programs, which is kind of a shame, but it's their choice and they shouldn't be pushed.

I think some of that can be addressed by marketing (awareness and appeal). Definately agree that no kid should be pushed, there is far too much of that in today's world and this area in particular.

AndrewH makes a good point about "super-clubs." I was aware of Bergen Fencing Club, and can even walk there from either home or work. It does not have the scale needed (although I understand the coaching is solid). Maybe it could grow by proper marketing, but it is still a small operation.

A super-club would require investment on someone's part (I talked to YL about it, but he was not in a position to do that after Rutgers) and would need a solid marketing effort to current HS fencers as well as general market candidates (there is no doubt a huge number of kids that would be interested in schools that don't have teams (e.g. Ramsey, Mahwah).

No doubt things will grow organically from here. I am amazed how much has happened in NJ in the last 10 years. But the above would certainly jump-start things a bit.

Rick