Jersey Fencing Explodes

[edew]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

A great deal of time and a great deal of money, and probably multiple high level coaches. These clubs either need to be built from the ground up over a period of years or need a huge amount of starting cash.

It's a shame that Litvan doesn't want to start one up, though. I have a tremendous amount of respect for his coaching abilities (Tamir Bloom, anyone? Cliff Bayer?) and think that given the resources to start and maintain a club in that first shaky year, he could do an excellent job.

Success and maintaining a club during the first few years have very little to do with the ability of the coach to generate top-level fencers, especially if it is to generate a top-level fencer from an already top-level position. Neither Cliff nor Tamir started their fencing careers with Yefim, and I'm not putting Yefim down at all. I had him for lessons for a while when I was in Philly and was very impressed with his lessons and he's a good friend.

Yefim can honestly put out a sign saying, "Coach of two Olympians" as a marketing tool, but those things don't last long unless he makes everyone who enters the club into an Olympian and that's just not possible.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by edew

I would imagine that the kids are interested in the JOs because that's the meet-market with the potential college coaches.

True. Of course, there are quite a few kids who just want to be able to say that they went to the Junior Olympics and the National Championships even if they have no chance of making it past the first round of DEs.

If the Junior Olympics were renamed NAC G (even if it still had a qualifier), I think that you'd see fewer fencers attending.

[piste off]

Good points made above...

I think the USFA should develop a marketing package and business plan (e.g. how to phase to reduce risk) that helps start-ups and existing clubs grow.

I've never seen or heard of anything like that, but I'm sure it would be of great value.

There is a great opportunity in north NJ for someone willing to execute properly. It has all the requirements for a successful club.

Rick

[edew]

Originally Posted by piste off

Good points made above...

I think the USFA should develop a marketing package and business plan (e.g. how to phase to reduce risk) that helps start-ups and existing clubs grow.

I've never seen or heard of anything like that, but I'm sure it would be of great value.

There is a great opportunity in north NJ for someone willing to execute properly. It has all the requirements for a successful club.

Rick

I don't think USFA has a clear understanding of what works and what doesn't. I've seen and read a bunch of literature from various club owners, the USFA (through the American Fencing magazine) and other sources (here, for example) and either the information is pretty generic or they're contrary to what others write. Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other in a sense.

Those who are wildly successful have not chimed in with their techniques and plans. Makes sense, though.

[Slim]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

AP and honors, in my high school.

And AH is right, some of these parents are completely psycho. When I was that age, I saw a girl break into tears on a school bus because she was afraid of what her parents would do... over the one "C" in her report card. Many of these kids are pushed waaaaay to hard by their parents (and honestly, by the schools, their peers and themselves) to be overachievers, and when everyone is an overachiever, they just get pushed harder, because GOD FORBID someone is average in their studies and doesn't get into Harvard at 16 with 42 credits already done.

There was a river of drugs flowing through my old HS, and I think that the phenomenal stress levels this can create are at least part of the reason.

Gotta take issue with some of your comments.....

I agree that some parents are, but most arent "psycho". And pushing a kid to achieve isnt psychotic behavior. Its responsible parenting. And no, kids today are NOT pushed hard by the schools nor their peers. If the parents didnt push, no one would. Today it's viewed as more important not to damage the self esteem than to point out weaknesses that should be improved on and and corrected. It's creating a generation of cry-babies. It interesting that the highest percentage of the top HS students especially in math and sciences are typically 1st and 2nd generation asian and eastern-european. Know why? Demanding parents that realize the consequences of not working hard. It aint genetic.

Better to cry over the C now and learn than to get fired over poor performance later in a ever increasingly more competitive work force. I would wager she was probably more concerned over getting grounded for a while than getting beat with a strap.

The fencing community is highly competitive, so you're going to have a high percentage of hard workers and overachievers involved, and yes....some psycho parents.

[achilles_heal]

Originally Posted by Slim

The fencing community is highly competitive, so you're going to have a high percentage of hard workers and overachievers involved, and yes....some psycho parents.

i wonder about the asian/east european thing. do you have any data to support this?

i think what RIT is talking about are the same sorts of folks that scream at little league umpires and brawl with other football and soccer dads. they are not pushing their kids; they are living through them.

i agree with many of your points, but pushing kids to make grades, be better than others in other endeavors, etc, especially at a young age, can also create a class of cynical careerists who may earn a good living, but will not necessarily lead happy lives.

one other thing: I know a lot of elite fencers who are who have been on national teams. almost all of them have strong academic and professional records. i can't remember any of them having psycho parents. and, when it came to fencing, they were pushed mostly by their coach and by their athletic peers - their parents were and are supportive facilitators, and pretty low key at least publicly.

EDIT i forgot the most important thing: they were motivated internally; the self-question for them was not "if i succeed," but when, and nothing was going to stand in their way... a sense of destiny.

that said, i completely agree that there is sometimes a problem - in parenting and in education - of rewarding mediocrity.

[ysbadadden]

Another reason that NJ HS fencers don't join the USFA (at least, those that started fencing in HS):
NJ has a fairly long and fairly rigorous HS season. Some kids want to do other things for the rest of the year. USFA fencing implies a year-round commitment. Not everybody wants that.
It's different in the Youth ranks -- USFA is the only place you can compete, so it becomes the focus.
So the way to grow the USFA is to grow Youth fencing -- hook 'em early, as in other sports.

[Anotherfencingmom]

This a really nice picture of the Cobra Fencing Club during the Super Regional.