Scooter & Jefferson

[Philistine]

So Libby got 30 months. (Be a bit over a week to see if he gets bail pending appeal, or if he has to go in now).

And William Jefferson finally got indicted.

Bad couple of days for criminal-politicians.

--Philsitine

[jeff]

When dirty pols get nailed, it's a good thing - regardless of which party they belong to.

The questions will be: will Scooter get pardoned? (The WSJ called for that quite a while ago), and who will stick up for Jefferson?

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by jeff

The questions will be: will Scooter get pardoned? (The WSJ called for that quite a while ago),

The really interesting part of that question goes to whether he gets bail pending appeal--if he's not in jail, there's little pressure on Bush to pardon him until the last minute--a pardon by Bush in the last month or so of his Presidency isn't likely to be too politically costly, I would think.

On the other hand, if bail on appeal gets denied (as is pretty likely, at least at the trial-court level), in 2 months Scooter's going to be sitting in jail, and the pressure will be on Bush to do something about it quickly.

and who will stick up for Jefferson?

Not too many people, I'd hazard....

--Philistine

[introspective]

Not me. I am appalled Jeff. I mean it sincerely. I lived in Jefferson Parish 1978 - 1981
[size="2"][from 1981 onward I drove down the road to Orleans and stayed.

I was appalled Jeff, by the poverty that I saw there. It's hard to see at first, because the housing in that area is decent and reflects the old Stucco architecture of the 30's. However, the area surrounding the suberb itself is puddled in swamp water, it's sits right next to a horrible train system that slowly shuttles toxic wastes through the area, it has old broken down warehouses along Jefferson Highway right in front of a major Hospital which is a top of the line Heart center.

But what struck me the most Jeff, is the grinding day to day poverty. That the people of Jefferson Parish have absolutely nothing but the grits they barely manage to buy daily. The girls all walking around barefoot with threadbare dresses on. The funny part Jeff, is that a long while back a friend of mine - a country hick friend invited me to stay by her house to mind her kid and she showed me the vittals to serve him, she opened her freezer door and lo and behold.....she had a squirrel stored in it. Yes Jeff, a squirrel. Those people still eat squirrel.

The people of Jefferson Parish had to sit outside daily, in the pouring down rain [I am not kidding I did it with them] outside and wait for the "Kenner Local" to pick them up one an hour - and drop them off at an intersection outside and in the middle of a busy highway to sit again, on one single bench to await the next busline that would take them into Orleans Parish. Right next to them was a bordered up building and a park that filled up with water every time it rained which was nearly every day. Sitting outside with those people in the dark while it rained and lighteninged was an experience. I was almost killed a dozen times, but they would change their minds. Those people deserve a little better than that. It is this indifference that is done delibertely to drive the population mad and mallible or into the army that makes me mad.

On a good day, you could sit with few of the 'watchtower' ladies and talk church with them. They were mostly thin boned ladies properly dressed who sat quietly with a few people and quietly offered little pamphets about God.

I really could not believe the "LA BELLE INDIFFERENCE" of Mr Jefferson and I am appalled ]

[jeff]

I want to make it clear, that I, "Jeff", have nothing to do with Mr. Jefferson, Jefferson Parish, Jefferson Highway, the Jeffersons or any of those other wannabe Jeffs. Oh, okay - Jefferson Airplane and Starship, but none of the rest of these guys.

[jeff]

On a related note: "Fox News apologizes again for tape good"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070606/...s_siDq2bnMWM0F

Conyers definitely not a Jefferson-wannabee. Was Fox making a "they all look alike" mistake or "a picture of any Democratic congressman will do"?

[marge]

I want to point out to you guys up North--that Jefferson's constituents just re-elected him resoundingly. Explain that one!

And Jeff, in response to your "JEFFerson disclaimer"--just so you know I join you in the disclaimer--my business is located on Jefferson Hwy (not in Orleans Parish though). I have nothing but contempt for the man. He is a laughing stock here.

But why did they reelect him?? And the election was held after he was exposed as a crook!

[introspective]

Why re-elect? Why re-elect Mayor Bailey who smoked crack in DC?

[jeff]

That was Marion Berry, not Bailey, silly.

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by marge

I want to point out to you guys up North--that Jefferson's constituents just re-elected him resoundingly. Explain that one!{snip}

Unluckilly for him, his case will be tried in Virginia. The jury pool will come from the Alexandria, Newport News, Norfolk, and Richmond areas. Perhaps not the most sympathetic jury pool....

--Philistine

[Inquartata]

But enough money can buy jury perplexity and uncertainty, if not sympathy. Even in Virginia.

[introspective]

I believe that by the 80's and then the 90's there was so much outcry about favoritism and racism that everyone became a watchdog and it's probably very rare to find a judge willing to take a bribe. Most of them are good.

P.S. I mean, please, you have to be kidding me, he just got caught with a stash in his home freezer. Do you think he would want to add additional charges to the menu.
Please again! I'd like a peice of that - I'm down to my last pair of slippers.


Really Virginia There is A Santa Clause.

[Inquartata]

Well, after all of three days in jail she has been released, supposedly because of a "medical condition". To serve the remainder of her sentence under "house arrest" in her own home. This in spite of the fact that the judge who sentenced her specifically forbade that option, and is now threatening to hold the sheriff responsible for letting her out in contempt of court.

Lest we become incensed by the appearance of favoritism, however, most misdemeanor female prisoners serve only a fraction of their sentences due to overcrowding in the LA jail system.

[scrapinpeg]

From what I hear, the "medical condition" is that she refused to eat the prison food. The heart bleeds.

I'm disappointed. I wanted to know what foul dripping disease she had to have that even a prison system used to skanky crack ho's couldn't deal with. Guess it was just "whinybratwonteat-itis."

[Inquartata]

Also, she was reportedly cold. She had three blankets, but they were small---and she had to use one of them as a pillow!

The horror! THE HORROR!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Not to mention that after three days without...ummm... "party fluids", she was beginning to hallucinate flying trust funds being shredded by hordes of millipede-armed father figures.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Theoretical question: What if Scooter gets a Presidential pardon after he has started serving his sentence, and a Dem president is elected in 2008. Could that President overturn the pardon?

Paris got freedom of sorts (electronic bracelet) but was taken back to prison. Can that not be a precedent?

Is a pardon overturn forbidden in the Constitution, federal laws, or in decided against in verdict handed down by the SCOTUS?

What is this with letting both Scooter and Paris stay out after a jail verdict has been handed down? Both certainly have the means to escape justice by staying out of the country. In Sweden, all criminals who get a jail sentence get to start serving it immedieatly after the verdict is handed down, they do not get to stay out. We also do not have any bail system. Otherwise, the jailbirds would fly away!


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Theoretical question: What if Scooter gets a Presidential pardon after he has started serving his sentence, and a Dem president is elected in 2008. Could that President overturn the pardon?

No.

Is a pardon overturn forbidden in the Constitution, federal laws, or in decided against in verdict handed down by the SCOTUS?

The Supreme Court has held that Congress cannot effect a presidential pardon. Given the Constitution only gives the power to grant pardons, and not the power to rescind them (as well as the Double Jeopardy Clause and the history of the pardon power), it's a safe bet they'd do the same if asked about a later President. There have been some unpopular pardons by the last few Presidents that have not resulted in an attempt to overturn the pardon--no doubt because all recognized it would be unsuccessful.

What is this with letting both Scooter and Paris stay out after a jail verdict has been handed down? Both certainly have the means to escape justice by staying out of the country. In Sweden, all criminals who get a jail sentence get to start serving it immedieatly after the verdict is handed down, they do not get to stay out. We also do not have any bail system. Otherwise, the jailbirds would fly away!

The point of bail is preventing someone spending a significant time in jail when they could very well be innocent. One of the factors in granting bail is a determination by the Court that the person will not likely abscond.

Again, it's a pretty safe bet that neither Paris Hilton nor Scooter Libby are going to flee the country to keep from doing their time....

In Sweden, is it common for those who are ultimately acquitted of crimes to nevertheless spend several months or longer in jail?

--Philistine

[scrapinpeg]

Originally Posted by Philistine

The point of bail is preventing someone spending a significant time in jail when they could very well be innocent.

Not quite.

The primary purpose of bail is to ensure that the accused returns to court when they're supposed to be there. Bail is essentially money held hostage against the failure to return to court.

There are several factors that are taken into account. The seriousness of the charge and likelihood of conviction are important, because the likelihood of absconding increases with the severity of potential punishment. If someone could very well be innocent, the consideration only goes to how much bail is appropriate, not to keeping them out of jail.

A history of previous compliance or failures to comply with judicial orders will also weigh heavily, as will community ties, criminal history, and potential threat to the community if released from custody. There are other factors, too, but these are the main ones.