Bending the tang!

[Gav]

Guy's I read in another thread I readsomething about bending the blade near the tang. Right, I understand how this is gonna give me some extra angle on my attacks but I have a few concerns.

1st. Won't this weaken the blade and therefore increase its chance of breakage?

2nd. How do you fit an ortho grip on? Surely if its bent, this creates andangle at the guard which won't hold the guard steady.

I would appreciate any feedback from you armourers out there - it all sounds too easy!

P.S. I emailed Estoc about their all in one epee tips. Anyone know how long for a response?

[This message has been edited by Gav (edited 08-26-2000).]

[BarryTice]

Gav --
I've never actually had to put a blade together from scratch myself, but about a year ago I spent a day watching Walter Triplette manufacture weapons to order at a tournament in Birmingham, Alabama. On every foil and epeé he put together, he bent the tang a bit. It doesn't take much, apparently, and the guard still fits snugly. Also, while this could (in theory) weaken the blade a little, consider that this one-time bend at a fairly strong part of the blade is significantly less of a weakening force on the blade than the repeated bends and kinks that can come from use. I'm no long-time high-experience veteran, but I've been to a half dozen or so seasons of tournaments, and the only weapon I've ever seen break at the tang was last week at practice, when I saw a saber break.

I wouldn't recommend going hog-wild with the bending, but a few degrees won't cause any trouble. When in doubt, experiment!

-- b.r.t.

[Lordy]

A little bend in the tang is not so much about the angle, but more about the balance of the weapon.

[Veteran]

A slight bend downward and to the left (for right handers) has a marked impact on point control from a physiological perspective. In order to keep your point on line with a straight tang, one has to bend the wrist slightly or throw the elbow out. Both are bad habits which weaken defense and attack. A slightly bent (two or three degrees) tang compensates for this physical reality.

[MikeHarm]

Re Estoc tips, Physical Chess will be offering them starting mid September, and says they're approved by the FIE semi committe, so they're legal under USFA rules if thats the case.

Mike

[neevel]

It's really as easy as it sounds, Gavin. Except for some old russian blades from the early 90's with un-annealed tangs I've never had a blade snap there. Unless there's a forging flaw, blades are going to break where they're being repeatedly flexed with use (i.e., the foible or middle), not at the tang which gets set once and then left there. There's no problem holding the guard on-- the nut will tighten everything down snug and secure. All of my foils have cants in the tangs, and every club foil I build gets a cant. I don't know of any top-level fencer who doesn't use some degree of bend in their tang. It really improves the feel and balance of the weapon.

-Dave Neevel

[Matt]

So, how exactly do you put a bend in the tang. Do you just put it in a vice and (carfully) yank on it, or do you have to heat it up first. This has always puzzled me.

Thanks,

Matt Pearsall
fencermatt@yahoo.com

[damianip]

NO HEAT!!!!

Cold setting is much safer. Heat treatment is tricky business. Not only how fast and how much you heat a steel important, how quickly you cool it is even more important.

Put it in a vise and gently bend it. The more support the better. I put a section of square tube over the threaded end which supports the threaded section and gives me extra leverage to gently and accurately set the blade.

Avoid bending it back and forth as this will work harden the tang, sacrificing ductility and creating a potential failure site.

Some folks just step on the threaded end and pull up on the blade, holding it near the tang. I prefer my method as I feel more confident with the vise and the added leverage.

It's not so hard, just be patient.


Paolo

[Veteran]

Matt:

Don't ever heat your blades or any part of the tang. It weakens (draws-out) the temper and makes it brittle and prone to breakage. To achieve a slight downward bend and one opposite the strong hand (slight bend to the left for right handers), you can put it in a vice and apply pressure with your hands or (and I prefer this) use a pistol grip for leverage holding the blade in your off hand. No mars on the blade this way.

[neevel]

I use a 1 1/8"-diameter combo wrench (the type with a crescent head and one end and an eyeloop socket at the other)-- the thing's about 18" long and of hardened, tempered steel. I insert the tang so it's passing through the loop (you can thread a nut on if necessary to keep the threading from getting marred) and then squeeze the blade and wrench together to put the bend in-- the wrench is long and stout enough that you can generate lots of leverage. A prybar with a nail-pulling hole also works.


-Dave Neevel