Attitudes towards Americans

[Fencergrl]

I think that one of the reasons it's easy to poke fun at the lack of knowlege American's have about the world in general and their country in particular is that fact that Americans seem so willing to constantly demonstrate that ignorance in the mass media. Often at the drop of a hat. I think this helps fuel a certain pre-disposition in others towards believing that American's, generally, are ignorant about their country and the world, since American television seems to reach everywhere.

Yup!... As I mentioned earlier, it makes me question your country's education system. The "Ugly American" stereotype does as well. When you have someone who doesn't understand why Canadians speak English and not “Eskimo” or why we have a different currency (I suppose they weren’t paying attention when they went through customs/ border?) you’re bound to wonder what’s going on.

To further this confusion… One of the Canadian satirical news shows used to have a small segment called “Talking to Americans”. The “newscaster” would go to the US and get Americans to congratulate Canadians on getting their first mile of paved road or for moving to a 24 hour clock…or sign petitions to have us stop putting our elderly on icebergs and sending them adrift…. And yes… Americans would enthusiastically protest or congratulate us… I suppose the excitement of being on TV kept them from thinking what they were saying.

Let’s say that you, as an American had the same experience with Canadians. With the intelligent Canadians simply blending in when they visit and the not so bright ones asking why you’re not speaking Eskimo and why do we colour our money... or in your case... why all the bills are same colour?

If given an opportunity… would you not ask the question “What the hell is going on in your country???” when you meet online, a group of intelligent Americans?” Afterall, it’s not the thing I’m likely to do in the boardroom with American clients…

Yeah I know it's insulting and rude to have someone from another country wonder if your country knows anything about the rest of the world. I don't know how one can approach the subject without getting somebody's back up a little.

[Fencergrl]

From that link:
1 Ireland
2 Switzerland
3 Norway
4 Luxembourg
5 Sweden
6 Australia
7 Iceland
8 Italy
9 Denmark
10 Spain

Go Scandinavia!

Peter! Stop being so country proud! If you're pro-Scandinavia... then naturally, that makes you anti-American! Jeff... I am joking here....

[wahrman]

Oh no!

I didn't think of that. I'm sure my fondness for Canada, Scotland, England,
Ireland and Germany makes me the worst of all. An Anti-American American!

Peter! Stop being so country proud! If you're pro-Scandinavia... then naturally, that makes you anti-American! Jeff... I am joking here....

[Fencergrl]

Oh no!

I didn't think of that. I'm sure my fondness for Canada, Scotland, England,
Ireland and Germany makes me the worst of all. An Anti-American American!

Yes... you evil creature!... For penance you must sing the Star Spangled Banner while wearing the the American flag as a cape, on top of an apple pie at a baseball/ football game.

[larkmaj]

Years ago, I read an article on the subject. One of the more amusing examples was a classroom of French schoolchildren who were asked to draw a map of the United States. They did. Apparently they felt quite strongly that New York City took up about a third of the country, with the remaining 2/3 made up of Texas and California.

I think one of the reasons for that is people have trouble visualizing a country being any bigger (or smaller) than their own. My favorite example was an anime where they took a train to hop over to Colorado from NYC, thinking the US was like Japan where you can hop on a train and get most anywhere in the country in a relatively short period of time.

[scrapinpeg]

Yup!... As I mentioned earlier, it makes me question your country's education system.

But then, we don't HAVE a national education system. At the macro level, schools are run by the states. Each state does it differently, and each state's curriculum is different.

As one who moved constantly in my school years, this led to a certain amount of tedium when my new school taught courses that my old school already taught the grade before, and a certain amount of frustration when courses I'd hoped to take (like sex ed) had already been given to the previous grade.

It was neat though, because each state's curriculum ensured that kids learned about that particular state. So I probably know more about the individual histories, natural resources and interests of a bunch of states than I otherwise would have had I stayed in one state my whole childhood.

Never learned about Canada, though. Never really needed to. Most Americans south of the rust belt can probably live their whole lives happily and productively without knowing much about Canada. Not saying anything bad about our fine neighbor to the north, just stating a fact.

[poor_nizzie]

Yes... you evil creature!... For penance you must sing the Star Spangled Banner while wearing the the American flag as a cape, on top of an apple pie at a baseball/ football game.

Don't forget the Budweiser and a NASCAR cap! :-P

[wahrman]

I don't even know where one would get NASCAR merchandise.

Don't forget the Budweiser and a NASCAR cap! :-P

[Fencergrl]

I don't even know where one would get NASCAR merchandise.

Folks... what we have here is a poser... he's probably one of those nasty French people pretending to be an American... let's stone him!!! Fencergrl runs off and gets her rolling papers...

[Wingate85]

[QUOTE=Fencergrl;564778]Yup!... As I mentioned earlier, it makes me question your country's education system.

How can a Canadian say that when your own fencing federation web site announces a talk by a Mr. Cohen on how to take advantage of the American University system via their fencing programs. BTW with almost 6,000 posts and those boring blogs of yours how do you find time to engage in that "high level training" of yours. I see there are a couple of veteran competitions coming up soon. You better get ready or those Ugly Americans are going to whoop your rear end---so says Wingy

[wahrman]

I did grow up in what was once la Nouvelle-France.

Folks... what we have here is a poser... he's probably one of those nasty French people pretending to be an American... let's stone him!!! Fencergrl runs off and gets her rolling papers...

[Fencergrl]

Never learned about Canada, though. Never really needed to. Most Americans south of the rust belt can probably live their whole lives happily and productively without knowing much about Canada. Not saying anything bad about our fine neighbor to the north, just stating a fact.

I cannot think of any point that I learned about the US either to be honest. I may be wrong (or was asleep that day) but I remember learning about other countries.

Having said that, I did learn about the US as an adult. The first job I had where we had American customers, I got a map of the USA... okay I did it because I felt foolish when I called a state by it's two letter abbreviation because I had no idea what it stood for and a customer thought it was hilarious...

I also had no idea where most of the states were... but I was a little like a 12 year old learning about sex-ed... I had a vague idea that Florida was "down there somewhere" and New York was on the East side and California on the West (although I was surprised how far down south it was.... I thought it was closer to Seattle than THAT!!!)

Canadians have the advantage (if you can call it that) as we get influenced by a lot of American media. I suspect most Americans don't get a lot of Canadian televison...

I'm talkative and friendly, so I found out a lot about different places by what the Americans I spoke to told me about their home....

Again... Canada being a smaller market, it is likely that Americans didn't have the same advantage... with the special few who got me on the phone .

Generally, I'm surprised when Americans even know where my Province, much less anything about my city. When they ask if I'm near Toronto, I just explain that I'm a few hours north of Seattle. I relate everything I can to the USA and then there's no confusion.

When I see a lack of understanding about their own country or that other countries have different currency etc... I begin to wonder how does a person become a functioning adult without learning something so basic??

[sneakattack]

Part of it just a sad fact of numbers. If hypothetically, 1% of any given population is ignorant then with 300 million Americans, that's a lot of fools.

I find that those same American fools act exactly the same way in their own country as they do in other countries. It just seems more pronounced when they are a fish out of water so to speak.

I experienced this not too long ago at a Japanese restaurant here in the states. In the confines of the quiet and peaceful restaurant, the two loud and obnoxious hicks (for lack of a better word) seemed absurd, and they had no idea that when the Japanese waitresses politely giggled they were actually being laughed at. But if you were to transplant those guys to the local TGI Fridays, then they wouldn't seem out of place at all.

I think many Americans (and people from other countries to a less extent) are never taught how to act in "foreign" situations. It's not necessarily a part of our upbringing anymore. I applaud parents and teachers who still insist on polite behavior in children, but it seems that not enough do that anymore.

I was brought up in a household that hosted foreign travelers on a frequent basis. As I grew up, I traveled to many foreign countries, and I was always received with open arms because I tried my best to speak the language and act appropriately.

However, I do still feel like a "dumb American" sometimes since the only language I speak fluently is English. But it's becoming more and more the universal language, so I'm lucky in that respect. And since I've lived with so many foreigners, I can understand almost any accent, no matter how thick. (I work in customer service and whenever my co-workers have trouble understanding someone, they transfer them to me.)

So anyway, IMHO, everyone is a product of their upbringing and their ability to adapt, and that's why every American (and foreigner) is different.

[jBirch]

I cannot think of any point that I learned about the US either to be honest. I may be wrong (or was asleep that day) but I remember learning about other countries.

I went to school in Toronto and we had to learn the US States and their capitols plus their major export and rough size. We had to learn how a bill becomes law in the US and about the three branches of federal government. I remember pretty much nothing from that, but I remember being taught it.

James.

[Coach Vic]

It's kind of hard to generalize based on limited specific examples to choose from. Back in the dark ages when I had to walk along a 173km stretch of border between two Germanys, I had a landlord that treated me like a beloved family member and also had doormen slam entries in my face because a white american soldier was not welcome inside as a potential troublemaker.
My last posting was at Ft Drum in the late 80's. I had some cooperative training with Canadian Law Enforcement officers who impressed the heck out of me with their knowledge and professionalism...things that have continued over the last eighteen years as I have crossed paths with Canadian officers at various training venues such as the Smith and Wesson Academy and some Sniper and SWAT training...I never felt anything but friendly interest and enthusiasm from them in our conversations.
My fishing trips to the St Lawrence or East Grand Lake in Maine have kept me careful to stay on the US side of the line to keep out of the hair of your Fisheries and Game folks but the waves have been friendly (Not like the looks I used to get from the East Germans) and my few sight-seeing trips over the line have been rewarding and positive with friendly, curious and conversational folks that seemed to welcome my interest in their towns and villages.
My French is terrible at best, but I know I have some cousins up there as my family is descended from some "black sheep" that came south in the early 1900's.
People are the same, and different everywhere. I have met many different individuals from other nationalities that I hold in great respect or even affection where our cultural differences only served to spice the conversations...I also have met individuals from overseas and throughout the states that seemed prepared to hate me on sight or hearing...xenophobic extremism and projection of who they thought I must be because of how I looked or sounded...go figure.

[Shi no Tenshi]

Having said that, I did learn about the US as an adult. The first job I had where we had American customers, I got a map of the USA... okay I did it because I felt foolish when I called a state by it's two letter abbreviation because I had no idea what it stood for and a customer thought it was hilarious...

Amusingly enough, when I used to work as a manager at Target, I was the only one in the store that knew all the 2 letter abbreviations for the Canadian Provinces (even 2 for Quebec since it likes to change it, didn't it have 3 in the past 10 years?). It was actually moderately important since we get quite a few Canadians in Montana....

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Yes... you evil creature!... For penance you must sing the Star Spangled Banner while wearing the the American flag as a cape, on top of an apple pie at a baseball/ football game.

This one thing were Sweden and USA differ greatly. In Sweden, the National Anthem is limited to the National teams, and anthems are performed after the event is finished. I have never heard the Swedish anthem being performed in a Swede vs. Swede sporting event.

Furthermore, you have to earn the right to hear you anthem. How? By winning, of course! If you lose against the other country´s team, you do not deserve hearing your anthem - or so the reasoning goes in Europe. The National soccer teams of San Marino, Luxembourg, Malta, etc. have not won for years, so never get to hear their anthems at the competitive games. Think that sucks? Well, train harder so that you can beat Germany then! That is the way anthems are played in Europe.

Another set of national symbol related differences: In Sweden, kids do not say allegiance to the flag and nation in school. The flag on the schoolyard is only flown at truly special ocassions - maybe 5-10 times each year. There has been cases where politicians have stated that they want the Swedish flag and anthem taken away totally from the school system, in order to stop making the immigrants feeling left out. Those suggestions have so far been stopped, but their sponsors have not been (AFAIK) been voted out.

No elected Swedish politician in his right mind will call himself a patriot - that word has been throughly taken over by a few small racist/neonazi parties, to the point that it is poisonous to everyone else. Interestingly, those small parties display the flag and sing the anthem a lot during their activities.

In Swedish political parlance, "Patriot" is decidedly nastier than what "Liberal" is in the political parlance of the GOP.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[sreckiki]

Furthermore, you have to earn the right to hear you anthem. How? By winning, of course! If you lose against the other country´s team, you do not deserve hearing your anthem - or so the reasoning goes in Europe. The National soccer teams of San Marino, Luxembourg, Malta, etc. have not won for years, so never get to hear their anthems at the competitive games. Think that sucks? Well, train harder so that you can beat Germany then! That is the way anthems are played in Europe.

I think you're wrong about anthem AND soccer in Europe. Each time, a national team plays against another, the anthem of each country is played BEFORE the game... And if I am not mistaken, the anthem is never played at the end of the game in soccer.

Apart from that, you were right!

Regards!

[jeff]

I went to school in Toronto and we had to learn the US States and their capitols plus their major export and rough size. We had to learn how a bill becomes law in the US and about the three branches of federal government. I remember pretty much nothing from that, but I remember being taught it.

James.

I've always thought memorization of capitols one of the worst examples of worthless rote education, the epitome of backwards thinking in education. To spend time teaching kids the state capitols of another country seems almost designed to be pointless. The fact that you remember little from it, and presumably your life hasn't suffered from that shows how little you needed this. I would say that they wasted your time. Was there nothing useful they could have taught you then instead?

I have plenty of problems with education in the US (however, we have some of the best universities), but if this were the only difference between US and Canada's education, I would say we might be better off...

[jBirch]

I've always thought memorization of capitols one of the worst examples of worthless rote education, the epitome of backwards thinking in education. To spend time teaching kids the state capitols of another country seems almost designed to be pointless. The fact that you remember little from it, and presumably your life hasn't suffered from that shows how little you needed this. I would say that they wasted your time. Was there nothing useful they could have taught you then instead?

It depends on how you view education. Is education designed to give you all the things you will definitely need in life, or is the purpose of eduction to simply open your mind to ideas? I certainly don't remember all of the US states and their capitols, but I do know that there are 50 states and that there is a fundamental difference between Maine and Texas. I also know that Texas is close to Mexico and has a very large Mexican population. I know that the largest city in New York, is New York and that New Jersey and New York are like Hull and Ottawa.

While it isn't of obvious use to me, I did retain enough that the useful bits sunk in. And the fact that "Nebraska" sounds like a US state is also useful.

I had no idea about the various regions of Britain, nor of the various regions of France, Italy, Spain and Germany until university. Even then, I don't really remember which nation has Peidmont and Loire. I know that they used to be countries, but not which ones ended up being provinces.

One of the best uses of the Americana trivia I was exposed to in elementary school is to not look like a total dummy when Americans tell me where they're from. I know the difference between a President and Prime Minister, which I might not otherwise know had I not been exposed to the concept as a kid through rote memorisation. I also know that Americans have many miles of paved road and don't set their elderly adrift on life rafts. Even in Alaska.

I have plenty of problems with education in the US (however, we have some of the best universities), but if this were the only difference between US and Canada's education, I would say we might be better off...

The US seems to have a marked difference between the best and the worst educational institutions. In Canada, our best competes relatively favourably with your best, albeit without the notoriety or resources. Our worst totally destroys your worst though. And, it costs about $5000/year in tuition for an undergrad degree at a top university in Canada. This can easily be financed through student loans, so there is really no excuse for not getting an education if you really want it up here. In the US, the best schools charge significantly more and while you have more scholarships then us, you have less access for average citizens then we do. Which is why a university degree is so valuable down your way.

As in many American things, money seems to be the greatest influencer of ability. If you have access to money, you can achieve. If not, you have a very tough struggle ahead.

I sorta prefer the access model at the expense of the top-most quality. I'd rather have both, of course, and quality is still important, but I'd rather sacrifice a little quality for a lot more access then vice-versa.

James.