Bad example as a competitive coach

[catwood1]

I am a college student who leads and teaches at our VERY new fencing club on campus. (We are still looking to get a real coach) Because we are a very new club, we don't get to practice very much. Because of this, I don't have enough time or opportunity to stay in good fencing shape. My footwork is fine for teaching good basics, and a 1 or 2 hour practice once a week, but I get tired very quickly, and I have alot less speed in my footwork than I used too. Also, my fundamental bladwork is slower and bigger than it used to be. Good enough to teach begginers, but in competition I get destroyed with it.

I am forced to use alot more supplemental type action as my primary game in competition. Alot of distace stop hits, counter attacks while playing with the distances, and fleches, specifically fleches with flicks to obscured targets. These are all actions that I can perform quite well even without being in great fencing shape. things like wide parrys, and slow ripostes don't effect a spin away or fleche nearly as much. This leads me to my problem.

I feel I am setting a bad example for students that see me compete. When teaching absolute begginers, its alot of "stop counter attacking, instead take a parry" type basic advice. Things that you need to say so that they will understand the basics of fencing. But then they see me in competition doing alot of the things that I tell them not to do. Im not sure what to tell them. Any advice?

[noodle]

Originally Posted by catwood1

I am a college student who leads and teaches at our VERY new fencing club on campus. (We are still looking to get a real coach) Because we are a very new club, we don't get to practice very much. Because of this, I don't have enough time or opportunity to stay in good fencing shape. My footwork is fine for teaching good basics, and a 1 or 2 hour practice once a week, but I get tired very quickly, and I have alot less speed in my footwork than I used too. Also, my fundamental bladwork is slower and bigger than it used to be. Good enough to teach begginers, but in competition I get destroyed with it.

I am forced to use alot more supplemental type action as my primary game in competition. Alot of distace stop hits, counter attacks while playing with the distances, and fleches, specifically fleches with flicks to obscured targets. These are all actions that I can perform quite well even without being in great fencing shape. things like wide parrys, and slow ripostes don't effect a spin away or fleche nearly as much. This leads me to my problem.

I feel I am setting a bad example for students that see me compete. When teaching absolute begginers, its alot of "stop counter attacking, instead take a parry" type basic advice. Things that you need to say so that they will understand the basics of fencing. But then they see me in competition doing alot of the things that I tell them not to do. Im not sure what to tell them. Any advice?

just about every coach at some point in time has to pull out the old "do as i say, not as i do" adage. tell them they have to learn to walk before they learn to run.

[RITFencing]

Dude, I was right where you were when I started college. Starting up a new fencing club and fully aware that I was not qualified to coach it (though not quite aware of just HOW unqualified I was.) We even both came from NJ.

Don't worry if you're not perfect right now. No one is ever perfect. Do the best job you can with them. Keep things interesting and try to encourage them to go out and find their own fencing education in the world.

As far as basic technical and tactical issues... they will try to emulate your fencing. If the way you fence is just bad for them, then you might first want to take a long, hard look at your own style. Secondly, you may want to change how you fence at your club, or just relegate yourself to giving lessons. If you can practice on your own, just doing footwork in your dorm or whatever, I would recommend it. Make sure you stick to the basics, and make sure they are clean. Don't be afraid to drill at a snail's pace (taking several seconds for each tempo), making sure every motion is exactly right. For that matter, find a good coach and ask them what the definition of "exactly right" is. You won't get the same answer from every coach, but having some sort of goal for your technical game is important.

Are you teaching them all three weapons, or just foil (your profile says it's your main)?

When they have problems tactically, I find that simple games can help remedy the situation. If your foilists want to counter attack constantly, make them play the advance lunge game (I get one advance lunge to hit you, you can retreat as much as you want, then you get an advance lunge to hit me, etc) or do some themed bouting where anyone who counter attacks and still gets hit loses a touch as well as giving one to their opponent.

If you have any more questions, ask them here or feel free to drop me a PM; I know what it feels like to be in your situation.

[catwood1]

Oh I readily admit im not qualifyed to coach, although the one thing that works in my favor, is for 3 years of HS fencing, I was constantly coaching the underclassmen. So I may not be qualifyed, but at least I have some level of experiance

Yeah, while fencing with the club, I try and only do good clean actions as much as possible. Its not like im fencing all out just to win a practice bout against a friend in a classroom somewhere...

Right now, we only have been teaching the begginers foil, because out of the 3 or 4 experianced people, we all are foilists. I am definitly know the most of what im talking about in foil. I fence some epee, but not much.

Thanks for that game about the counter attacks, i havn't heard of that one before, but I definitly like it.

[edew]

Originally Posted by catwood1

I am a college student who leads and teaches at our VERY new fencing club on campus. (We are still looking to get a real coach) Because we are a very new club, we don't get to practice very much. Because of this, I don't have enough time or opportunity to stay in good fencing shape. My footwork is fine for teaching good basics, and a 1 or 2 hour practice once a week, but I get tired very quickly, and I have alot less speed in my footwork than I used too. Also, my fundamental bladwork is slower and bigger than it used to be. Good enough to teach begginers, but in competition I get destroyed with it.

I am forced to use alot more supplemental type action as my primary game in competition. Alot of distace stop hits, counter attacks while playing with the distances, and fleches, specifically fleches with flicks to obscured targets. These are all actions that I can perform quite well even without being in great fencing shape. things like wide parrys, and slow ripostes don't effect a spin away or fleche nearly as much. This leads me to my problem.

I feel I am setting a bad example for students that see me compete. When teaching absolute begginers, its alot of "stop counter attacking, instead take a parry" type basic advice. Things that you need to say so that they will understand the basics of fencing. But then they see me in competition doing alot of the things that I tell them not to do. Im not sure what to tell them. Any advice?

When you make counter-attacks, are you making them as a bad, desperate action, or a planned tactical action? There's no real reason to not make counter-attacks unless it is done inappropriately. In general, there's no such thing as a bad action, just done at the wrong moment. Large advances? Sure, it's ok to do. Just don't do it right into the opponent's point. Hold blade too low? Could be an effective tactic. Attack too fast and far? If it works, don't stop it.

I have a kid in my youth class who constantly counter-attacks. He now incorporates the action as part of his tactic (I think...nobody knows what he's going to do next, probably not him either). At first, I was trying to stop him from making these counter-attacks. Now, I just tell him to make sure that if he's going to do the counter-attack, don't get hit (at least not on target). As long as it works and can be reproduced time and again, I'm not going to stop someone from doing it. You'd be surprised at the amount of creativity one can come up with when allowed to be free to do something non-pedagogical.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by catwood1

Oh I readily admit im not qualifyed to coach, although the one thing that works in my favor, is for 3 years of HS fencing, I was constantly coaching the underclassmen. So I may not be qualifyed, but at least I have some level of experiance

Yeah, while fencing with the club, I try and only do good clean actions as much as possible. Its not like im fencing all out just to win a practice bout against a friend in a classroom somewhere...

Right now, we only have been teaching the begginers foil, because out of the 3 or 4 experianced people, we all are foilists. I am definitly know the most of what im talking about in foil. I fence some epee, but not much.

Thanks for that game about the counter attacks, i havn't heard of that one before, but I definitly like it.

You're not "qualifyed" to spell qualified (dude...you're not in community college, right???), but you're qualified to teach rank beginners. Just go for it.

[introspective]

I was going to say the same thing... no offense, but if you don't use your spell check they'll rank on you - fortunetly for me, I was always a student and thus have the excuse that I can spell as cr appy as I want to. But as you're a coach, I would say this.....

1. Get in shape and quit mucking around
2. Start running three times a week 3 to 5 miles
each time out.
3. Find a more experienced fencer to practice with and/or bring into your salle and work with and maybe you can 'train' that more experienced fencer to become a sort of assistant or helper for your newest brand newest students who need help learning how to hold the weapon or something like that.
4. Either that or...you're ours for the next five years unless we hear some very good news in the next five months.