A Nationals what if...

[Drifter]

Not to be overly negative or alarmist, but as a former long time resident of S. Florida I tend to think in terms of what season it is when planning things. That having been said, what is the plan should the week of nationals be a week that one of our friendly neighborhood huricanes decides to visit? (Unlikely I admit, but a possibility) I'm sure there have been questions like this before, I'm just curious what the process would be. Would there be an attempt at having it at another location? Would nats just be scrapped?

[counterattack]

Not to be overly negative or alarmist, but as a former long time resident of S. Florida I tend to think in terms of what season it is when planning things. That having been said, what is the plan should the week of nationals be a week that one of our friendly neighborhood huricanes decides to visit? (Unlikely I admit, but a possibility) I'm sure there have been questions like this before, I'm just curious what the process would be. Would there be an attempt at having it at another location? Would nats just be scrapped?

Read all about what was known:
Summer Nationals and Hurricane Season

[Drifter]

Thank you. I must learn to do searches more often before posting.

[Drifter]

Actually the last thread doesn't really address the situation acurately does it? I too lived in SFL From David Through Andrew as well as had to do disaster recovery of a company in Ft. Lauderdale from Wilma two years back and lived in GA during the Opal and Hugo silliness in which I twice moved significantly sized data centers in a matter of hours because no one had a plan. I would be the last one to tell you that hurricanes are as horrible as the media make things out to be, BUT a plan should be made up beforehand anyway. Consider that just the year before last TWO hurricanes were formed prior to Nationals week. The possibility is there somebody should address the situation before they find themselves in the middle of it.

A hurricane doesn't have to be dangerous or damaging to make trouble for nationals. The logistics of getting a few thousand people into one city when the airport has been shutdown because of a hurricane that may be 30-50 miles away displays the issue I'm refering to. Or what about the possibility that the power grid could have problems. You'll recall that during Hurricane Wilma (2005) much of S. FL was out for a week or more. Logistics are what screws things up after a hurricane.

Basically, what happens IF there is a weather issue? Refunds all round? Has anyone thought about it?

[edew]

Probably no refunds. At least not from USFA. But USFA does have event insurance for these things so that if the equipment is damaged, they'll get payment from the insurance company to get replacement equipment. Vendors, I'm sure, are in the same boat.

I doubt you can jump on the USFA insurance bandwagon to get your wrecked fencing mask replaced. Probably your own homeowner's insurance will cover that.

As to having a good time, if there's a hurricane, I'm sure people would be just having to live through it. S**t happens. Don't expect to get reimbursed for it all the time.

[teacup]

Reschedule to Chicago in January

[HDG]

At the very least, you should be able to get your flight and hotel reimbursed; entry fees might be a write-off as edew says. Has anyone actually contacted the national office to find out about these sorts of scenarios?

[KD5MDK]

Reimbursed by the USFA? That seems extremely optimistic unless they have a giant insurance policy.

($400 flight + 400 in hotel costs (average) x 3000 people is 2.4 million, and I'm sure I'm lowballing everything.

[teacup]

There are no reimbursements if events are missed because flights are canceled or delayed due to snow storms. Why should hurricanes be different?

[Drifter]

Now that I've got people thinking... what about the event itself? What happens if nationals isn't held due to a weather situation? Are there any impacts from such a scenario? What if just some events are held? What if only 30 people manage to get there for a specific event because the airport is closed?

There are no doubt a thousand 'what ifs' and not all can be planned for but using that as an excuse not to plan for any 'what ifs' is a very very bad idea and usually lead to finding yourself in a place you don't want to be when there is a problem.

[Drifter]

There are no reimbursements if events are missed because flights are canceled or delayed due to snow storms. Why should hurricanes be different?

Presumably in the instances you're pointing out the tournament still takes place. It is possible that in a hurricane situation that the event could not take place at all. Not something that is the fault of the participants and something I think that would indeed necessitate an offer of a refund on the part of the organizer. Now if I were the organizer, in this case the USFA, I'd send that offer with a request that everyone consider their fees a 'donation' and not accept the refund as that would probably do some serious damage to the sport of fencing.

Just things to think about. I think its important that someone think about the possibilites and have a plan ready in the event that one is necessary.

[mlr2fence]

My guess would be that if the conditions allow, the events will be held with the fencers that show up. Its the same for a winter NAC. There always seem to be some hapless fencer(s) who can't make it due to a snowstorm and the event goes on without them. Think back to a couple of years ago when college football games were cancelled due to the storms--I imagine S Nats would be in a similar situation if a major storm threatened/was blowing thru before everyone got there. If Nats started and one cropped up, and there was an evacuation--bye bye summer nationals. I can't imagine that it would be rescheduled. The best to hope for would be that maybe an additional NAC would be thrown into the mix.
The way I look at it, no matter where or when events are held there's always the possiblity that weather interferes with planned activites. (think floods/tornados/snowstorms/earthquakes,etc) Have your own personal safety contingency (one should always have thoughts along those lines, esp in this day and age) plan in place and don't worry about the fencing.
We can't control Mother Nature.

[Inquartata]

What happens if nationals isn't held due to a weather situation? Are there any impacts from such a scenario?

Indeed...such as, how are national teams to be selected if there is no final points event?

I mean, they could just select based on existing places on the points lists, but that might result in some unfortunate outcomes. For instance, for the VMS50 team to Vet WCs, it would mean last year's Gold Medalist Ed Korfanty would not make the cut.

Nor does that seem particularly fair, inasmuch as a lot of fencers have probably planned the season pretty carefully---which events can I miss and still be in contention, etc.

And what about the annual membership and Congress meetings, among others? Don't those have to be held, under the bylaws?

[oso97]

And what about the annual membership and Congress meetings, among others? Don't those have to be held, under the bylaws?

In particular, this is a very important Congress - it will elect members of the Nominating Committee.

I suppose they could put off the Congress meeting until the first NAC of the new season...

[Drifter]

Indeed...such as, how are national teams to be selected if there is no final points event?

I mean, they could just select based on existing places on the points lists, but that might result in some unfortunate outcomes. For instance, for the VMS50 team to Vet WCs, it would mean last year's Gold Medalist Ed Korfanty would not make the cut.

Nor does that seem particularly fair, inasmuch as a lot of fencers have probably planned the season pretty carefully---which events can I miss and still be in contention, etc.

And what about the annual membership and Congress meetings, among others? Don't those have to be held, under the bylaws?

Exactly my point. Thank you Inq. Is there an alternative plan in place in the event of such an occurance? Additionally, I'm not sure of how the rotation works but would 2007 nat team be the selection of fencers for 2008 Olympics for the DIV 1 fencers?

[HDG]

At the very least, you should be able to get your flight and hotel reimbursed; entry fees might be a write-off as edew says. Has anyone actually contacted the national office to find out about these sorts of scenarios?

Reimbursed by the USFA? That seems extremely optimistic unless they have a giant insurance policy.

($400 flight + 400 in hotel costs (average) x 3000 people is 2.4 million, and I'm sure I'm lowballing everything.

No, airline tickets for cancelled flights refunded or credited by the airlines; pre-paid hotel nights for hotels that are shut down and evacuated by the hotels.

[counterattack]

Read all about what was known:
Summer Nationals and Hurricane Season

Sorry, didn't mean to imply there were any good answers there. It was just a starting point. Nobody has given any official answer. I think the answer is: the power structure as currently elected will come up with a plan when they are faced with the problem. Trying to anticipate how the event might be impacted by a storm that hits, versus a storm that shuts down a hub like Atlanta and half the fencers don't make it, versus a storm that threatens, versus no storm just seems like too much anticipation with not enough facts to work on. Short of looking after the safety of the fencers in the event there is a problem (mainly just making sure they know who in Miami to talk to about emergencies) I don't think it is much use to guess.

[Drifter]

...just seems like too much anticipation with not enough facts to work on.

That is often the assumption but rarely the case in Disaster Recovery planning and the most common reason people choose not to do any planning at all.

It breaks down like this. There are, all in all, only two reasonable outcomes of an event (weather related or otherwise) that could in theory impact Nationals.

The first and most concerning is that some event takes place that prohibits nationals from taking place in its entirety. (Florida falls off the map for an extended period of time very shortly before the beginning of Nationals. I'm exagerating but something as simple as an extended power outage as a result of a hurricane hitting another part of the state could be used as an example is a realistic possibility if one is needed.) What are the ramifications of such a prohibiting event happening and what are ways to mitigate the pain involved in such an occurance?

The second is that some event takes place during or shortly before Nationals that either impacts the avenues of arrival and departure to the event either partly or wholly, or impacts the ability of the organizers to adequately hold portions of Nationals. What are the ramifications of such a prohibiting event happening and what are ways to mitigate the pain involved in such an occurance?

Those really are very large catch-alls that manage the overwhelming majority of DR situations. Answers to those 2 questions and plans for making those mitigations into reality are really all anyone needs. I'm just wondering what those plans are for Nationals.

[counterattack]

That is often the assumption but rarely the case in Disaster Recovery planning and the most common reason people choose not to do any planning at all.

You sound like an expert in big d Disaster big r Recovery planning. Others of us will just wait until we even know if there is a potential hurricane before getting excited.

[introspective]

....here's a plan. If there's a gigantic hurricane which hits the coastline in anywhere from a days notice, you'll all be in a hotel and at the mercy of whichever official is in charge of your city. People panic during big things, even trained soldiers - even during wars and stuff - so get a grip on reality it's up to you.

Speaking From Experience
If however, you get into a cat.5 like I was [Guam 1997 - Paka - see the Internet for reference] the only thing that is humanly possible, is to stay inside, do not go outside for anything, don't open up your door for example in the middle of a storm or it'll blow off. Put drinking water in several containers in your hotel room, plenty of snack type dried foods, a flashlight, no candles please and wait for everything to blow out to sea.

WHEN that happens......wait. Wait WAIT again and don't ask anyone for a refund.......That is the key to living. Never ask for a refund during or after a major disaster.

USFA may decide on what little information that they may get via satelite to cancel the event if someone were to predict that a Major Category Five Hurricane Would Be Landing in several hours. Other than that there is NO SUch THING.

My advice as a fevered fencer who would literally go anywhere on the planet earth to fence if I had the means....would be to go, unless they had a disaster before and they asked everyone to please stay away.