Begginers Kits

[Foil Girl]

Hey guys (again)-

I was wondering where I could get a good begginers electric foil kit. I found some sold online, and physical chess had the cheapest price (at 99 dollars). But I'm thinking that it probably won't be very good quality. Anyone know a good place with good quality stuff where the price isn't TOO bad?
Just wonderin'.


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-Foil Girl

[latenight]

If I were you, I'd avoid the beginner kits. Your better off to try to find you weapons, body cords, and lame seperate on special. That way, you pick what you want. You probably already know what type of blade you prefer or at least the stiffness. As far as lames, I would get either a stainless, or one of the non-metal fiber ones. For body cords, i'd get good german two prongs-not east european or chinese knock offs. It will cost you more but they will last you much longer. If you simply can't get any more money together, than a starter kit may be the way to go. But it would be better to buy good stuff now than to wish you had it and upgrade later. Remember, if you are going electric, you have a pretty good commitment to pursuing the sport. It's not like when you got your dry stuff and were not sure. Also remember that for alot of comps you will need two body cords and two weapons. I think the Santelli competition kits have two of each, but I have not used Santelli, so I can't vouch for the quality.-hope this helps-Jon

[neevel]

My experience is that Blue Gauntlet has the best inexpensive lames: a robust anodized copper lame for $65 that has a high metal thread density. They may turn a bit green around the collar, but so long as you (hand) wash regularly them with a bit of ammonia and a mild detergent (Ivory Snow or Woolite) they hold up very well-- much longer than the Russian copper lames from Blade and Physical Chess, which are to be avoided (expected time before they exceed 5-ohms is about 6 months if used regularly). The downside to BG is that their low end electric blades are either Chinese or France Lames, which generally aren't the best. If you go with the BG kit ($109), at least upgrade to a FL blade-- certainly not the best choice, but better than Chinese blades. And if you use bayonet sockets, upgrade to a body cord with a 'brand name' (Leon Paul or Uhlmann) plug-- generic bayonet plugs are troublesome.

Triplette's set is a bit more expensive, but you get what is probably a more durable blade, and the Ultralight lames are about as durable at the BG lames-- they'll hold their conductivity much longer, but the fabric is brittle and will start to fray after a while with heavy use.

Instead of a kit, I'd recommend getting things separately. The $65 BG lames are at least $20 cheaper than any other lame of similar durability. Get one, and then get a better quality foil blade and body cord-- that extra $30-40 over the bargain basement stuff will be worth it. Remember to get a few spare parts for your foil point while you're at it-- springs, screws, and maybe a tip or two if you're using French electrics.

-Dave Neevel

[HilandDoug]

Some good advice, but if you're still growing, see if you can't save a few bucks and go with the cheap starter set. It'll get you what you need to compete, and won't break the bank.

[tsalyards]

I agree that beginner's kits are not the way to go. Grant it, you will spend at least twice as much to get better gear, but the longevity of that gear will be worth the investment.

Here are what I consider to be the best buys out there right now:

Electric Foil: Go with Triplette's Dinamo weapons. For $50 you can get a pistol gripped foil with German electrics (which I recommend over the french). I'm not sure who makes these blades, but I dig them. They're flexible. Specify that you want a German socket, otherwise they have been known to throw on a crappy french socket with a German point and wire.

Body Cord: Uhlmann, Allstar two prong cord. $30

Lame: Don't buy a copper lame. I just got a great deal on a stainless Uhlmann lame from Blue Gauntlet. I ordered it through the web (which gets you a nifty discount) and with my name stenciled on the back it cost me only $130 including shipping. Most places are charging more than that just for the lame without stencling. Great deal on a great lame that will last long.

In short, cheap gear will get you nowhere. A copper lame will fail after six months of moderate use. French electrics and cheap body cords will fall apart and turn into a real pain. Simple facts are that you are going to need at least 3 foils for competition and you don't want to go into a tournament worrying about your bargain basement gear failing on you.

Have fun. Hope this helps.

-Tad

[John]

This is kinda on topic...I don't fence much foil but I going to purchase my first lame pretty soon. I am looking for a "style" of lame I saw about a 6 months ago at a tournament. It is made of a really thin conductive material (much lighter than traditional lames) that has a mesh jersey like layer underneath it. My understanding was that when you sweat, it can ground out the lame, and this design prevents this from happening. Plus it is very very light and breathable...Does anyone have any idea what kind of lame I am talking about and where I can find one like this? Also if anyone has any additional thoughts (good or bad) on this kind of lame, plus feel free to let me know.

[latenight]

I think it is the Infinity lame. I forget who makes it. I'll see if I can find out...

....www.infinityelectronics.com

[This message has been edited by latenight (edited 10-24-2000).]

[John]

late,
You are da man! That's the lame I was looking for. Thanks!

[neevel]

Infinity lames use a metallized fabric made by a company called Marktek (they produce a variety of conductive materials for EM shielding applications and the like). It's a fabric which has been 'impregnated' with metal particles by a process akin to electroplating, and as such is not vulnerable to losing conductivity due to the breakage of the thin wires woven into standard lame fabric. Infinty lames should hold their conductivity better than anything on the market.

Their one downside is that the open mesh weave is much more vulnerable to getting snagged and torn. I have failed Infinity lames at check-in at NACs, and in all cases it was due to holes or tears in the fabric (one girl brought a sabre lame with a pair of 5-inch long gashes in the right shoulder and was surprised that it didn't pass). Small holes are easily patched with extra Marktek material (standard lame fabric can be used, too).

The material is in fact great stuff for patching lames because it's conductivity is the same from either side (unlike lame fabrics, which tend not to have much metal exposed from the reverse side). There is a fantastic method of fixing dead spots on sabre mask bibs by glueing the material over the dead spot with a hot-melt gun and then using a smooth, flat metal object to firmly rub the patch down while the glue is still melted. Enough excess glue will be squished out from beneath the patch to ensure good electrical contact, and will get pushed up though the mesh and stick to the rubbing tool so it doesn't insulate the outside. You can fix spots where you'd never be able to get a needle & thread into in a couple of minutes. This would also work as a quick-fix for dead spots on standard lames (the glue method won't work well for Infinity lames because it's tough to get adhesion to the mesh).

Bill Hall (fencerbill@aol.com) has extra swatches of the fabric to sell, or you could try getting some from Infinity or even direct from Marktek (www.marktek.com).

BTW, Blue Gauntlet also sells Infinitys at NACs. It's not uncommon for them to sell out, though.

-Dave Neevel