05-25-2007, 01:07 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Indiana, PA
Posts: 988
| Coloring the Blades?
OK, I've been seeing these new 'colored' blades being sold by different vendors, and (being cheep and poor) I was wondering how to go about 'decorating' my old worn plain vanilla blades (all of which are some 3-8 years old...). I have heard that so called 'alcohol' dyes work well on metals, but I was wondering if anyone out there had ideas on what to use.
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05-26-2007, 12:13 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norcal
Posts: 510
| Disclaimer: I haven't tried this
So I hear that one can color a blade by using an electrolite solution, power source, and a ground. From what I've heard it actually would strengthen the blade and have no ill effects.
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05-26-2007, 06:51 PM
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#3 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| The material rules forbid any "treatment" of the blades.
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05-26-2007, 07:30 PM
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#4 | | Scrub
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Miami
Posts: 2,578
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata  The material rules forbid any "treatment" of the blades. | M.1 only lists mechanical methods of treating blades; I expect electrochemical processes would fall under "other methods", but in typical FIE fashion the rule raises more exegetical questions than it answers. | |
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05-26-2007, 10:23 PM
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#5 | | Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 32
| If you figure it out, try doing an easter egg kind of thing. Go big or go home, I say. | |
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05-26-2007, 10:35 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,993
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata The material rules forbid any "treatment" of the blades. | Given that the manufacturers sometimes coat the blades in much the same manner as Eric is asking about, i don;t think that's the treatment being referred to.
More likely it referring to any treatement that can affect flexibility...like certain grinding. | 
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05-27-2007, 01:05 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: near Boston
Posts: 3,308
| Ted Li has described to a fellow group of armorers how, at the Olympics, they use an electrical process to put an Olympic symbol on blades at equipment control.
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05-27-2007, 01:26 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: TX
Posts: 480
| Erik:
If you want to try this, go for it. Go a gun shop. Ask them for a bottle of "blueing" material. Its liquid, wipe on leave on and wipe clean kind of process. Same process that is made when coloring a rifle barrel. Its really not worth it and if not done correctly, you will really upset some other fencer when you get it on their lame or jacket.
Gary Spruill Quote:
Originally Posted by erik_blank OK, I've been seeing these new 'colored' blades being sold by different vendors, and (being cheep and poor) I was wondering how to go about 'decorating' my old worn plain vanilla blades (all of which are some 3-8 years old...). I have heard that so called 'alcohol' dyes work well on metals, but I was wondering if anyone out there had ideas on what to use. |
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Ancora Imparo | |
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05-27-2007, 05:21 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wherever I am.
Posts: 516
| Quote:
Originally Posted by twisterfencing Erik:
If you want to try this, go for it. Go a gun shop. Ask them for a bottle of "blueing" material. Its liquid, wipe on leave on and wipe clean kind of process. Same process that is made when coloring a rifle barrel. Its really not worth it and if not done correctly, you will really upset some other fencer when you get it on their lame or jacket.
Gary Spruill | A buddy of mine did this to a dry blade of his. When he fences with it you can smell it at least 5 feet away.
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"When your opponent fears you, then's the moment when you give the fear its own rein, give it the time to work on him. Let it become terror. The terrified man fights himself. Eventually he attacks in desperation. That is the most dangerous moment, but the terrified man can be trusted usually to make a fatal mistake. You are being trained here to detect these mistakes and use them."
-Frank Herbert, Dune | |
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05-27-2007, 05:24 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas
Posts: 137
| Go to a local gun store, and ask if there is anyone in the area who does parkerizing. Sounds silly, but out of boredom, I've toyed around with various finished to non-FIE blades. Parkerizing does not kill the conductivity, and lasts longer than black metal oxide finishing that can be done commercially. Both look way cooler than the sTm and other stuff, unless you don't like black or olive drab.
As for cost, I had unwired foil blades done for .12 a pound with black metal oxide, and a little over .50 a pound for parkerizing.
The epee blades have all seen extremely heavy use, and only the black oxide finishes have been less than spectacular, but that's probably due to the person fencing with it being more prone to hack and slash than actually stab.
My two cents. | |
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05-29-2007, 04:55 AM
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#11 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Quote:
Originally Posted by HDG I expect electrochemical processes would fall under "other methods" | Yes. And then there's that "All methods" part. 
"The rule may mention a few examples, but to proscribe those three only when it says "All" is to commit the fallacy of composition." - Exegesis 3:16  Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Fencer Given that the manufacturers sometimes coat the blades in much the same manner as Eric is asking about, i don;t think that's the treatment being referred to.
| Wouldn't you expect that manufacturers have submitted samples thus colored to the FIE for testing and have thus gotten them approved beforehand? I doubt that DIY goes through the same process. Quote:
Originally Posted by fencerbill Ted Li has described to a fellow group of armorers how, at the Olympics, they use an electrical process to put an Olympic symbol on blades at equipment control. | Yes, but m.42 specifically mandates that. Again, DIY blade coloring will scarcely qualify as an official inspection mark... Quote:
Originally Posted by Angwilwileth A buddy of mine did this to a dry blade of his. When he fences with it you can smell it at least 5 feet away. | It depends on the brand of bluing, I have found. Some pastes especially are quite nasty.
I have blued a lot of steel with Outers cold ( liquid ) bluing solution without olfactory issues.
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05-29-2007, 02:41 PM
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#12 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,514
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata Yes. And then there's that "All methods" part.
"The rule may mention a few examples, but to proscribe those three only when it says "All" is to commit the fallacy of composition." - Exegesis 3:16 |
So I am assuming no using of oil, scotchbrite, abrasive blocks or anything else that would keep rust off the blade. Don't worry some of the rust will come off on Inquartata WHITE uniforms. :]
I love the FIE. Their rules allow us to fail almost anything we want to with their vagueness.
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05-30-2007, 05:06 AM
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#13 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Quote:
Originally Posted by DHCJr So I am assuming no using of oil, scotchbrite, abrasive blocks or anything else that would keep rust off the blade. Don't worry some of the rust will come off on Inquartata WHITE uniforms. :]
| Excellent point. Yes, strictly interpreted "all" would certainly seem to include all of the above.
As for rust---better rust marks than oil marks.
Anyway, assuming my opponents possess a rudimentary competence there should be marks only on my lamé, which is gray perforce, rather than on my uniform, of which only the ( nontarget ) knickers and socks are accessible. 
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05-30-2007, 10:24 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Live in Maine...Fence in New Hampshire
Posts: 1,289
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata Excellent point. Yes, strictly interpreted "all" would certainly seem to include all of the above.
As for rust---better rust marks than oil marks.
Anyway, assuming my opponents possess a rudimentary competence there should be marks only on my lamé, which is gray perforce, rather than on my uniform, of which only the ( nontarget ) knickers and socks are accessible. | Bold added for emphasis.
Inq...I think it may have more to do with YOUR rudimentary competence. Would you ever parry with your arm? (Oh, wait...do you fence sabre?)  | |
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05-30-2007, 10:56 AM
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#15 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Um...who said anything about "parrying with the arm"?
Projecting, are ye? 
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