Parent's involvement in bouting

[The Rose Knight]

I think that a level of encouragement from the sidelines is important for kids. But I limit my encouragement to simply cheering for my son when he does well and encouraging him. I don't shout out coaching advice from the sidelines, even though I fence. Once a bout begins, it is the youngster's bout, not mine.

Just my thoughts. I don't begrudge parents who think differently.

Daniel

[Neinteen]

Originally Posted by Peach

My experience is that my daughter would like me as far away from the strip as possible. Preferably in another state.

Sounds good for me too. I've never fenced whilst my parents watched. Don't plan to ( will eventually ). As of now, it just seems like it would be awkward. Really awkward. and embarassing. and pressure-filled.

Probably isn't that bad, just seems like it from lack of experience with it.

Don't want my parents watching me actually fence someone until i feel more confident in myself a bit.

[journalmom]

Eventhough we, as parents, want what's best for our kids, fencing becomes his/her sport when he/she is on the strip. The lonely feeling he/she gets on the strip is something we will never feel and experience. It's ultimately up to each child to figure out how to overcome that feeling. Some kids do very well alone. Some kids need our support. It's very individual. Parents can only give what's needed by each child. We can scream and holler all we want but if he/she only hears his/her coach, we are just doing it for ourselves, which is fine. But if that starts to affect the fencer, then, we have to back off. If the fencer needs our shoulder to cry on after losing or winning, then, we need to be available. After all, we want what's best for them, right? This seems like a no-brainer.

[Harrychoi]

I totally agree, we are there with them for firstly for support, I should know, I have been there for my two fencer for the last four+ years.

I have one boy (foil) and one girl (epee) they react totally different, the boy like to have me around during competition, and the girl dont want to see my face.

As parents we always have to land support when needed but at the same time help our children to stand on there own two feet and some time is not that easy to do the two thing at the right timing.

My son call me after his recent cadet competition in main land china, " I am sorry dad, I only end up being top 16", he sounded very disappointed, at the time I can only think of two answer:

1. "Is ok son, do better next time"
2. " it is very good, I am happy for you"

now that I am going to the airport to pick him up, I am wondering should I said more or should I say some thing eles.

[occasionalfencer]

Originally Posted by Harrychoi

I totally agree, we are there with them for firstly for support, I should know, I have been there for my two fencer for the last four+ years.

I have one boy (foil) and one girl (epee) they react totally different, the boy like to have me around during competition, and the girl dont want to see my face.

As parents we always have to land support when needed but at the same time help our children to stand on there own two feet and some time is not that easy to do the two thing at the right timing.

My son call me after his recent cadet competition in main land china, " I am sorry dad, I only end up being top 16", he sounded very disappointed, at the time I can only think of two answer:

1. "Is ok son, do better next time"
2. " it is very good, I am happy for you"

now that I am going to the airport to pick him up, I am wondering should I said more or should I say some thing eles.

Try not saying anything. Just listen. Sometimes if you listen long enough, and quietly enough, they will tell you what they want to hear.

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by occasionalfencer

Try not saying anything. Just listen. Sometimes if you listen long enough, and quietly enough, they will tell you what they want to hear.

You forgot to say "Grasshopper"....

[TBean]

Having watched any number of fencing children and thier parents over the years at competitions I can tell you that each kid wants something different.

Many kids cannot have their parents watching them - it just makes them too nervous. Your kids know your voice and can hear it above all others as well as picking you out of a crowd. Many parents of successful fencers say they spent years watching thier child fence out of the kid's sightline and being very quiet - many parents of not so successful fencers never learned this lesson.
Other kids need more support and want you to be there and cheer for them.

The best thing to do is listen to them and watch how they fence. If you cheer wildly right in front of your child or are hovering over them all the time and they are struggling - try backing off a little and see how they do. If you are distant parent and they struggle - try giving more support.

Its like anything else in parenting - watch and listen to your child - one way or another they will tell you what they need.

[Mo]

How do you guys handle it when the parents of your kid's teammates come up and start talking to your fencer in a way that is OBVIOUSLY intended as sabotage?
A very good friend of mine has a young fencer and I see parents from her club coming up and saying all kinds of stuff that would make me get out my baseball bat.
What do you do in that situation?
How about when your child is fencing and the parents from the club of that child are cheering so it is a disturbance? When they cross over from cheering to jeering? There is a club from Chicago that does this and it just makes me ill. The entire club's parents make as much in your face noise as they can. I think it is sick for parents to try to make it so hard for kids.
The Momster

[4qtrs]

That's a tough one or several.

I think to a certain point the fencers don't notice the sidelines until it turns overwheleming for or against them. Some fencers can either ignore it or feed off of it. I have one of each.

I haven't actually seen a parent go up and tell a kid something really negative, but I have seen other fencers do it, succesfully at times. So, I do watch for the one sons' reaction the other could care less.

I may be wrong here (feel free to sling the tomatoes) but I think we see it more frequently than they do because we see it from an adult view with all of the subtleties.

[hpfencing]

Parents, as a coach I suggest one thing! BE THERE! There is nothing harder than dealing with a youth that has been devistated or that has gone well above his expectations (big head) without a parent there.

Sometimes missing events is un-avoidable but its best if you are there.

Talk to your coach and get pointers on what is ok to do at events and be there for your kiddos... Don't make coaches and older fencers become suragate parents for the event! BE THERE!

[4qtrs]

Hmm, I kind of think with this group you are preaching to the choir.

[dcmdale]

Originally Posted by Mo

How do you guys handle it when the parents of your kid's teammates come up and start talking to your fencer in a way that is OBVIOUSLY intended as sabotage?
A very good friend of mine has a young fencer and I see parents from her club coming up and saying all kinds of stuff that would make me get out my baseball bat.
What do you do in that situation?
How about when your child is fencing and the parents from the club of that child are cheering so it is a disturbance? When they cross over from cheering to jeering? There is a club from Chicago that does this and it just makes me ill. The entire club's parents make as much in your face noise as they can. I think it is sick for parents to try to make it so hard for kids.
The Momster

It may just be perspective, but it sure seems like this is getting worse. I first noticed it a couple of years ago when a couple of top girls (who really didn't need an advantage, but I won't name names) started making a point of going around during warm-ups at NACs loudly "evaluating" their competitors. ("Boy, her stance is sooo wide. How did she ever make it into the top-16?!?"). It seems to have spread from there. (Like it or not, teens, especially, emulate the people on top. When you have classy people at the top--Maya Lawrence comes to mind--it sets a tone. The reverse, unfortunately, is also true).

My approach with my daughter (perhaps somewhat older than your "young fencer"):

1. "You are going to run into this--not only here, but throughout life. It is part of your maturing as a fencer and a person to learn how to evaluate criticism for what is valuable and to let that which isn't (or is mean spirited) to slide off."

2. "When serious national/international competitors are critiquing you, you should regard it as a backhanded complement--you are on their radar. Also understand that there is a method to what serious competitors are doing. They want you to be self-conscious about your stance or arm position or whatever. There is a good chance that what they are criticizing is really something that is a strength and they want you to change."

3. "When somebody *does* get under your skin, the only proper response is on the strip. Don't allow your anger to let you get wild, vindictive, or uncontrolled. Concentrate that anger into more precision, more control, more awareness, better fencing."

4. "Don't be like them. As the end of the day, we do this for fun. This garbage makes it not fun. *Maybe* they win a few bouts, but a few bouts aren't worth the friendship and respect that they lose."

[dcmdale]

Originally Posted by suterces

Hi parents,

I was refereeing at a low level (not many rated fencers) junior event this past weekend and it was interesting seeing how some parents try to encourage the fencers during a bout. Some of the parents probably never fenced before, but they were yelling out things like "set it up!" on the side anyway.

So my question is, what is your experience with encouraging the fencer during a competition? How much fencing knowledge or experience do you have? How did the fencer respond?

Interesting question. I have hesitated to answer because I probably coach my daughter more from the sideline than most parents, but mostly at my daughter's instigation. Very early on, we developed a series of handsignals that she could use to indicate things like "I need some water," "I need Gatorade," etc. That has evolved over time so that she can tell me if she is hurting or frustrated or wants help (or telling me to get lost
) without alerting her opponents. I have some ways to communicate back some of her standard mistakes. I also usually know when to get out of the way when she comes off the strip because she needs to get outside and vent.

We have a well defined relationship: She is the person on the strip and I am not. I know that she is doing the best she can and I don't get frustrated with her because of results or because she doesn't accept something I say. She doesn't have to explain why. Often action look different from the side than it does on the strip. I have learned enough about how to see action that she finds it valuable enough to ask me. (Can you tell that I am a proud dad to be able to say that?) We often watch bouts together when she is not fencing as well as videotape of her and analyze the action together so that we know what each other is thinking. We have private names/signals for particular moves and styles. When she reads this post, she will know what it means when I move both elbows .

Her coach has been supportive. He will break lessons (sometimes not even hers) to stop and show her mom or I things to be watching for or, if she's doing something wrong in a lesson and can't figure out what, he will quiz us to see if we know what the problem is--if he thinks that it is something we could be expected to see.

At the end of the day, your experience "coaching" your kid is going to reflect your overall relationship with your child and how helpful your child finds the advice you give.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by dcmdale

She is the person on the strip and I am not.

I know that she is doing the best she can and I don't get frustrated with her because of results or because she doesn't accept something I say.

Her coach has been supportive. He will break lessons (sometimes not even hers) to stop and show her mom or I things to be watching for or, if she's doing something wrong in a lesson and can't figure out what, he will quiz us to see if we know what the problem is--if he thinks that it is something we could be expected to see.

At the end of the day, your experience "coaching" your kid is going to reflect your overall relationship with your child and how helpful your child finds the advice you give.

VERY good advice! Sounds like you have a great coach in your corner too....

[cjhutch]

My teenage son will look at me evertime he makes a touch to make sure that I saw it (kind of funny, really) and wants me by the strip watching. I confine my reactions to a thumbs up or a "good job, Ryan" when I see him get awarded the touch and other than than keep my mouth shut on the strip. I have trouble deciphering the action since the blade work is so fast (what my son lacks in foot work-he says that it is pretty sad-he makes up for in speed of bladework and acceleration so I would be lost at this point if I actually tried to respond to my "interpretation" of the action. It would get embarrassing for both of us real quickly.

[Jengar]

If you are a parent who doesn't fence and you want to help, then ask your child (before he starts fencing) what he wants you to tell him during the 1 minute break in the DE or between pool bouts. If you are the only one available for him to talk to (his coach is unavailable) he probably already knows what he needs to do so just give him support and encouragement.

Sometimes, coaches will give you some tips on what to tell your particular child if he cannot be there. After all, he should know the strengths and weaknesses of his fencers.

One other thing you can do to help is to keep up with the scores of all the bouts in the pool. Then you can hand your pool sheet to him to double check the scores before he signs. That way he can concentrate on fencing rather than record keeping.

One thing I don't recommend is yelling encouragement while they are fencing. I can remember many bouts I lost because I was distracted. Don't do that to your child.

[Derobement]

Originally Posted by Mo

How about when your child is fencing and the parents from the club of that child are cheering so it is a disturbance? When they cross over from cheering to jeering? There is a club from Chicago that does this and it just makes me ill. The entire club's parents make as much in your face noise as they can. I think it is sick for parents to try to make it so hard for kids.

I have to admit this is a something that really bugs me. Clapping at the end of a bout is one thing but loudly cheering every point is just obnoxious and often does come across as jeering the opponent. Unfortunately, if poeple don't have enough tact, class, or respect to see that, there isn't much you can do about it. I did once see a frustrated parent tell the opponent's hooting mother that she really shouldn't embarass her kid by acting like he's never scored a touch before. Unfortunately, it only shut her up for another bout and a half.

[sleepyweasle]

Originally Posted by Jengar

...One other thing you can do to help is to keep up with the scores of all the bouts in the pool. Then you can hand your pool sheet to him to double check the scores before he signs. That way he can concentrate on fencing rather than record keeping...

This is the one thing my fencer has found invaluable because she is always so caught up in the momentum of the bout that she loses track of the score. It is such a great thing to hand her your bout sheet with all of her scores and have her be able to go over and easily correct any mistakes that were made. She happily admits that she can't hear a word I say to her while she is fencing. But I know the pool sheet is at least one truly useful contribution I can make when I am there.

[pinkelephant]

Our two sons are both grown up now (ish!) but were very different. Number one son wanted us nowhere in the same room, and number two always wanted his dad (who was also his coach), but not me unless I was silent (which I find very difficult!). Incidentally, both of us are fencers ourselves. Both, of course, wanted our financial and chauffeuring services.

When they started doing opens at the age of 13 I started competitng again - mainly because it was less stressful than watching. Now both of us are reffing most of the time so rarely get to see them fence. Number two has taken himself off round the world to compete, so the independence they learned early on seems to have stood them in good stead.