Some good, beginner accuracy exercises

[Lord Gorlock]

Howdy. So, I've noticed a fairly reoccurring problem; I can make these awesome, sometimes sexy openings in an opponent, and I lunge, and bam! My point is approximately 2 cm off target. I am the shoulder striker.

What are some easy, nonexpensive (read: 0$) ways to improve ones accuracy? Also, are there any specific technique flaws that influence accuracy such that I could look for them specifically? I realise that not thrusting in their general direction is a technique flaw, but something a tad more subtle; something that someone who is on their 5th (Oh yes, you may bathe in my glory) lesson wouldn't know to search for.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Make a 3 inch square on the wall. Poke it.

Its amazing how far basical problem solving skills will take you.

As far as technique goes, just make sure you're not holding the weapon too tight.

[Timo]

Good question! (us n00bs gotta stick together, I've had 2 lessons) So experienced people, what are some good exercises?

[Lord Gorlock]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Make a 3 inch square on the wall. Poke it.

Its amazing how far basical problem solving skills will take you.

As far as technique goes, just make sure you're not holding the weapon too tight.

Perhaps I lunge too hard, but I think I'd poke a hole in the wall, thus leading to doom.

...Unless it doubles as a distance judging exercise, in which case, you're brilliant.

[Goldgar]

Originally Posted by Lord Gorlock

What are some easy, nonexpensive (read: 0$) ways to improve ones accuracy? Also, are there any specific technique flaws that influence accuracy such that I could look for them specifically? I realise that not thrusting in their general direction is a technique flaw, but something a tad more subtle; something that someone who is on their 5th (Oh yes, you may bathe in my glory) lesson wouldn't know to search for.

If you're only on your fifth lesson, it may be that you're making some basic mechanical mistakes. For example, you may be turning your hand as you lunge, instead of letting it come out in the same position that you hold it when you're on guard. Or it could be that you are punching from the shoulder, which adds a lot of extra motion to the simple, straight extension.

The key to getting rid of extraneous motions in the lunge is to practice the motions first simply and slowly. I recommend using a practice target (any suitably padded surface will do) and practice simply extending from the en-garde position, then lunging to plant the point on the target with the right amount of bend in the blade, and with the bend going the right way. Do this repeatedly, even though it's not very realistic in a bouting situation. Make sure you always hit with your arm at full -- but not locked -- extension, and don't punch -- let your legs carry the point to the target.

When that feels easy and natural, and you always hit the target correctly, start letting the lunge begin before you reach full extension. Practice it that way for a while. When that's good, gradually move the start of the lunge earlier in the action, until it's kicking off just as the extension starts.

When that's good, try advance-lunge. Since the target won't be moving away (unless your target is an obliging drill partner), make sure you do this at sufficient distance from the target that your attack is not cramped. Initially, synchronize the extension with your advance so that the extension completes with the advance and remains static through the lunge. Then, when that is hitting very nicely, spread the extension through the whole combined footwork of advance and lunge, so that the extension begins with the advance and finishes as the lunge is ending. Again, don't punch, don't wave the blade or turn the hand, just extend simply with the point going to target.

Really, your instructor should look at the way you're executing these actions to make sure you aren't making any major mistakes, and have the right model in your head. The above are just basic pointers for how to practice the simple straight attack.

[qatet]

Often that last moment miss is because your shoulder tightens up at the last moment. There are lots of games that you can play to help keep your shoulder loose. I know, these don't seem like they relate to point control, but there's a goo chance that the gross muscle coordination is what's throwing off those last moments of accuracy.

- Catching a quarter. Stand en garde. Place a quarter on the back of your hand. Gently toss it up in the air. Extend and catch it, palm facing down. When you are comfortable with one quarter, add another. Throw them up together (place one further forward on your hand) but catch them separately. (tttttthhhhhhrrrroooooowwww, catch catch.) Your hand will go forwards to catch the first, quickly backwards to hold the first against the underside of your fingers, then forwards again to catch the second. When you get good at that... add a third. If you're not cursing loudly with multiple quarters then you're not doing it right.

- Balancing weapon. Stand en garde. Balance your weapon in front of you on its point, arm slightly extended. Recover and extend to catch/balance again. Throw in other actions between letting go and catching again - see how many times you can slap your thigh, retreat then advance, double retreat then lunge or fleche, etc. You can turn this into a partner drill - balance the weapon with your back hand in front of your back toe and your partner does the same. One or the other of you releases your weapon and you both extend/advance/lunge/etc. to get your opponent's weapon.

- With a partner - Place point on your partner's chest with arm extended. Partner leads distance, you keep your arm extended. Release and pull back with your shoulder blade to catch the first change of distance, then return to a neutral extension between steps. To cue a lunge, the leader should make a particularly large retreat. The leader needs to focus on making smooth steps. When you're comfortable with this, close your eyes (as the follower). Your elbow should not bend as you do this, all of the initial change of directions should be in your shoulder, nice and relaxed.

[qatet]

Oh, heh, fifth lesson? You're still getting used to these funny motions. The things I suggest will be useful, but so will just becoming accustomed to living a newly assymmetrical life.

[fencerbill]

This may sound silly but at least try it.

Assume your weapon is magical. All you have to do is to will it to hit in a certain place. Let your weapon pull your arm into an extension and when it is straight, let your weapon pull you into a lunge.

You just have to concentrate on where you will have it hit. It will hit right where you want.

This is just a simplistic way to do what Goldgar described. And if you do it properly, your arm and your shoulder and your whole body will be relaxed as Gatet advised.

As you begin to get into it, you can then fix your attention on your target, close your eyes and when you have hit, open your eyes and see it just where you wanted it.

If it doesn't go well at first, say to yourself "Don't push it, let your weapon pull you into your extension and lunge."

[forethought]

As obvious as it may sound, keep your eye on where you are aiming. Don't fixate your gaze on your opponents face, keep it on the spot you want to poke. Practice your thrusts and lunges slowly and correctly, and gradually speed things up.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Make a 3 inch square on the wall. Poke it.

Its amazing how far basical problem solving skills will take you.

As far as technique goes, just make sure you're not holding the weapon too tight.

Basically. I would add that you should make sure you are leading with the tip, not attempting to push it on, keeping a loose shoulder and doing all those other things that make a good extension good.

Also, work on your distance... you may be missing because you are lunging from too far/too close.

Against a wall, you can do this standing, with advances, with lunges, advance lunges, jump lunges, possibly fleches, depending on having an opening for you to run past.

You can also hit and remise (better in epee than in foil/sabre) with all of those, practice hitting different targets and with different angels, hitting to one and remising to another... really, there are an endless amount of things you can do with a simple wall.

And that's not even adding in the baseball on a string, or a shoe with a rock in it for a foot target.

Just make sure that you are hitting something soft. Fold a towel in half and then tape it up.

Also, take it very slow and do it right. One correct repetition is better than 1000 bad ones. There is a time and place for cardio, conditioning, speed, etc, and this is not it. Especially at first, take it very slowly and train your body to do exactly the right thing.

[Relampago]

Originally Posted by Lord Gorlock

(Oh yes, you may bathe in my glory) l

Gross, dude. There's a difference between bathing and basking.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Relampago

Gross, dude. There's a difference between bathing and basking.

Yeah, whoever heard of a bathing shark.

[Jay83]

For general point control at home one of my coaches suggest an exercise with loose change. It helps with the point-eye coordination.

Take a bunch of loose change, (I'm obviously from Canada) - Toonies, Loonies, quarters dimes etc. and spread them on the floor in front of you. Take a foil and try to hit the larger coins consistently, then try to hit smaller and smaller coins.

[Rick Shellhouse]

Take one tennis ball.....drill or cut hole thru....thread with string or thin rope....hang from top of door opening...get on guard....hit ball...back on guard ...hit ball as it swings....repeat ....add in retreats and advances....add in lunges....



Rick

[qatet]

Originally Posted by Rick Shellhouse

Take one tennis ball.....drill or cut hole thru....thread with string or thin rope....hang from top of door opening...get on guard....hit ball...back on guard ...hit ball as it swings....repeat ....add in retreats and advances....add in lunges....

Rick

Better yet - put it on elastic so it has some vertical movement as well. even a string of rubber bands will do.

Still better, thread two, one high, one low. The benefits for epee are obvious, but even for foil it means that the wing of the top ball is less predictable. Keeps the whole enterprise a bit more challenging.

[Allen Evans]

I'll come out, again, against the tennis ball (or any other hanging object) drill. Everytime I watch someone who doesn't have good form work with a training object like this, I see them over extend their shoulder, which is probably one of the biggest reasons for missing when extending.

Here is one of the things I tell my students to do: face a wall -- without a weapon -- and reach out to point at the wall with an extended arm. Thinking of pointing rather than "extending" results in a smooth extension without hunching the shoulder or locking the elbow. After 20 repetitions of this, step back from the wall and do the same thing with a weapon in hand, against a target or specific spot.

AE

edit/ps....even with the drill above, I still feel that there is room for the student to practice errors in the extension, and regularly have them show it to me at practice so I can give them feed back.

[Rick Shellhouse]

Sounds great...now if I can just get my oponents to stand perfectly still...Ive got it made....


just kidding...


Different methods for different folks...tennis ball works much better for epee fencers as opposed to foil...


Rick

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by Rick Shellhouse

Different methods for different folks...tennis ball works much better for epee fencers as opposed to foil...

It depends on whether you think accuracy in the thrust comes mostly from hand/eye coordination, or mostly from proper technique in thrusting.

Do an experiment. Get a few (3-5) epee fencers who have been fencing for less than a year. Line them up in front of the tennis ball without jackets, just in t-shirts, so you can see what their shoulders do. Start the tennis ball swinging and watch them make successive thrusts at it, lets say 10 thrusts a piece.

I would be very surprised if some 50% of the thrusts don't result in a lifting/blocking/hunching of the shoulder. Especially on those thrusts in which the ball is hit, sent spinning, and the fencer tries immediately to hit again. From a beginner, the action becomes more of a "poking" action than a real thrust.

I've seen this over and over again when I've watched beginners practice with a moving target. It's a good drill for experianced fencers who aren't going to make this mistake, but I wonder at it's usefulness with someone who's just starting out.

AE

[RITFencing]

On the tennis ball...

I just got finished doing a bunch of static aid work (see blog for more), and two of the aids I used were a baseball and a softball. If they are stationary at the start, I found them to be good targets. I also use them to practice my remises/counter attacks by hitting the ball and tracking it with the tip. NOT following it or chasing after it. Just moving the tip to a point where the ball will pass through. Fingers only, and really, if the first hit was solid, I don't have to move at all. The ball swings right back down for another solid pop on my tip.

I also use the baseball to practice disengages. I start it swinging like a pendulum and dip the point around as it passes by.

Bear in mind, I've been fencing for nearly 10 years. Would I recommend these drills for a beginner? Only if they had a coach right there to help correct them. Otherwise, stick to the wall, or even practice your extension in thin air. That will help you get the arm motion down without leaning in, bunching up the shoulder or otherwise cheating, since you're not actually trying to connect to anything.

[Rick Shellhouse]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

It depends on whether you think accuracy in the thrust comes mostly from hand/eye coordination, or mostly from proper technique in thrusting.


AE

Well perhaps we use differnt terms....but I have never taught a "thrust" in my life...ranks up there with "jabs" in my book...


smooth extensions yes.....thrust...no....thrust equally widely swinging tennis ball....ie..inability to do the drill correctly...


but perhaps we use different terms....I am by no means touting the tennis ball as the end all be all...it works for us....I ask you grant the same respect..



Rick