To Risk or Not?

[mrgenius]

I recently was in a situation where I was fencing someone much stronger than me. At first, the bout was about even, but they pulled ahead about 6-4. Then after that, I scored a few doubles with straight fleches, with a single light or two. This particular fencer had a style that was very fluid, with not a lot of extensions or many times even en guarde but fleches that came from nowhere. Losing by three points at the break, I was advised by a coach (who I do not normally work with, but have in the past) to try to take his blade, or beat it, and then fleche, because otherwise I would not be able to close the gap, and would end up losing by three points.

Now I tried this, and tried going for single touches, and I lost 15-8. But I think that had I tried to keep up in score and go for doubles, I possibly could have gotten enough singles from luck or skill to close the gap. I really don't know, but in retrospect, the fencer was too strong for me to score single touches in that way, with the amount of fatigue I had then.

What would you do in this sort of situation? Use a strategy that usually resulted in singles but occasionally resulted in doubles? Or try completely for single lights?

[edew]

Is this foil, saber, epee, brickbats, single sticks, nun-chucks, silver stars or katanas?

[Coldfire]

Originally Posted by edew

Is this foil, saber, epee, brickbats, single sticks, nun-chucks, silver stars or katanas?

Well Im assuming its epee as he talks about double touches.

I dont fence epee so I cant help you.

[Durando]

Well, you were in a bad situation if you couldn't see where his flèche was coming from. In fact, if that were the case, you'd already lost.

Flèching into this opponent was a bad strategy. You said he was more fluid and you were tired. Well, for me, the two add up to your opponent getting a good idea of your flèche and hanging you out to dry with a parry-riposte.

Which is what maybe you could have tried to set up. But you said his flèches came from nowhere. Were I your coach, I would have tried to get you to see how he prepared them and tried to get you to parry-riposte. One or two successful ones and the game goes back to tactical neutral ground.

Boy, I love writing these kinds of posts. It kind of means nothing without having seen it.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

It wasn't his fleche that killed you.

It was everything before it.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by mrgenius

What would you do in this sort of situation? Use a strategy that usually resulted in singles but occasionally resulted in doubles? Or try completely for single lights?

What's your goal here? If it's simply "not to lose too horribly" then yes, I would follow a strategy that would result in me getting some touches -- even some lucky ones -- and losing by 4-5 points. You walk off the strip with some dignity intact, and get a shower and food, while the other poor fools are still fencing.

I would suspect that no matter what, this was not a winnable bout for you. From your description, the better fencer (your words) probably got a couple of touches ahead and decided to double out, or take the easy one light touches as they came. You didn't seem to have an answer for what he/she did, and they seemed to handle your attempts to change just fine.

A better strategic strategy might have been to use the coach's advice and throw in a few other surprises. Broken time attack? Why not? Take the blade and provoke infighting? Sure! There is always the chance that you would find something that totally worked and turned the bout around. At the worst, you would be able to see some avenues to exploit in a future encounter.

My post is another arrow in the air. Without seeing the bout itself, or knowing anything about you, it's hard to guess.

AE

[parrythis]

Originally Posted by mrgenius

I was advised by a coach (who I do not normally work with, but have in the past) to try to take his blade, or beat it, and then fleche...

IMHO....

When fencing a "strong" fencer, I have not found simple beats to be effective. More often than not, the strong fencer will recover their blade into a threatening line before you can transition from the beat to the next action in your sequence. You can, however, use the strong fencer's strength against them. When you beat their blade, they will try to snap it back in line and threaten target. As they do so, disengage around their response and take their blade on the other side, using their momentum to your advantage. As you take their blade, press your attack.

If you did not see where their fleche was coming from, you might have wanted to add a little distance. Adding distance = adding time to see, and react to, the fleche. Once you see it coming you will have the opportunity to take your opponent's blade with in six or two with opposition and let them fleche onto the tip of your blade.

I think if I were you I would not have tried to fleche at all. Go for single lights, yes - always, but not by trying to beat your opponent to the touche.

[BraveHardt]

It seems that the core part of this question is getting lost in the specifics of this one bout.

If you are fencing a superior opponent, you will not win if you try to get by on his or her mistakes. You will need to force them into some errors in order to be able to have a chance at winning. I think your coach was correct in suggesting some blade preparation in order to capitalize on your opponent's reaction. However, because this coach doesn't usually work with you, s/he may have chosen the wrong action for you to use.

Another way you can try and force mistakes is to wear them down mentally. If you could find a way to take away a strength (in this case, figuring out how to neutralize the fleche), then your opponent can grow frustrated and start making more errors.

[parrythis]

Originally Posted by mrgenius

I recently was in a situation where I was fencing someone much stronger than me.

I guess this begs the question, did you mean stronger in terms of fencing skill or stronger in terms of physical strength. My earlier answer assumed the latter interpretation. If you meant the former, my answer may not apply.