To cant or not to cant?

[crquack]

A search on this topic was singularly unhelpful:

I have been fencing with two epees with straight tangs. Recently I began to wonder if I should cant them at least a little to give me more hits on the top of the arm. I am reluctant to do so as if the result is not up to expectation, straightening the tangs again might lead to a structural weakness and a break.

How many epeeists cant their weapons? Is there a significant number who do not? Are there any other benefits to canting? Are there drawbacks?

I use pistol grips, BTW...The weapons are Leon Paul.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Definitely cant.

I cant.

Many of the top guys cant.

[Chafunkta]

I cant either.

If you cant, you'll find yourself doing better with shots to the arm.

Of course, when I cant it's usually not to a very large degree, like how i've seen others cant. Start with a small cant, and if you can accept that, move to more serious cants.

[fencerbill]

Don't worry about the cant making it difficult to straighten them out later. If you can put the cant in, quite likely you can change it again. Not guaranteed of course.

[erooMynohtnA]

You can uncant a cant, but some people will tell you that you can't uncant a cant. You can't make a habit of uncanting cants a lot or it can break.

Anyway, where's Inquartata?

[El Chucko]

I did a pseudo-scientific cant-analysis last autumn, and I recommend a downward cant of 10 degrees for most people.

If you use a French grip, add an inward cant of about 10 degrees, also.

[peet]

Bend the tang.
For sure, bend the tang.
Without a bend, it points up and away from the target.
With a bend (both down and in), it points right at the target, without you having to angle your wrist in a funny way.




wow, i cant believe I got through the whole post without making silly puns about the word "cant" !

DOH!!!



-p

[bigdawg2121]

Inq is in Tucson. I'm sure he'll complain tomorrow.

[Downtown]

I think that the severity of the cant is more than a point control issue. It is also a grip issue.
There are transfers were the straight handle of a French grip will hit your forearm.

Consequently, the cants on my French grip weapons are more severe. ( The exception being a PBT French grip that is designed differently and does not require as much adjustment.)

On my pistol grip weapons I do not see or feel the difference that much and would guess that I fall into the 10% in and down camp. ( As mentioned above.)

[yeoldearmourer]

You cant put a real severit cant because you handle must stay within the bellguard it cant go out passed the bellguard a good referee will carded you for it. I have done it in the passed. But a cant will put the point on target . If the blades are the leon paul blades with the groove they dont need much of a cant to much will mess with the blance of the weapon.

[eac]

That must be pretty spottily enforced, because I see a lot of people whose Visconti grips stick out beyond the bellguard. Andras Horanyi in particular seems to have a large amount of grip sticking out.

[fencerbill]

You cant put a real severit cant because you handle must stay within the bellguard it cant go out passed the bellguard a good referee will carded you for it. I have done it in the passed. But a cant will put the point on target . If the blades are the leon paul blades with the groove they dont need much of a cant to much will mess with the blance of the weapon.

When I have worked in a formal Equipment Control with Gabaret, the factor that usually kicks a weapon out is the severe cant that won't go through the cylinder unless you angle the blade. These get rejected. And is just why a cylinder is used that is longer than the permitted length from front of guard to rearmost limit.

Foil fencers can get a little relief from this by using smaller diameter guards, strongly disadvantageous for Epee fencers.

Tim is right about directors having an opportunity to penalize components sticking out from behind the guard. But fencers using common sense and not having prongs or rear extensions protruding from their grasping of the grip should not have any trouble. Body cord sockets extending beyond the guard are much more likely to be challenged.

And don't consider changing the cant after equipment control. There was a great flurry of activity at one World Championships when it was announced that any weapon that failed a re-examination would be subject to a black card.

[fencerbill]

Cants are also helpful to older fencers that have started to build up a little arthritis.

[crquack]

OK, that's me! I have seen the light! A-canting I shall go...

[The Terran]

Is it my inexperience that leads me to believe a cant puts me at a disadvantage against a left-hander, or is it a legitamate concern?

[El Chucko]

Is it my inexperience that leads me to believe a cant puts me at a disadvantage against a left-hander, or is it a legitamate concern?

One of the reasons that I recommend a downward cant, but NOT an inward cant (unless you use French).

If you fence on the Fighting Line, an inward (lateral) cant is a disadvantage against any fencer.

[Phaeton]

I shall have to recant my original post... It is not my place to descant on the cants of blades.

[remise]

I cant either.

If you cant, you'll find yourself doing better with shots to the arm.

Of course, when I cant it's usually not to a very large degree, like how i've seen others cant. Start with a small cant, and if you can accept that, move to more serious cants.

I cant. You can.

[tbryan]

I cant. You can.

Ich cane.
Du canst.
Er cant.
Wir canen.
Ihr cant.
Sie canen.

[piste off]

Is it my inexperience that leads me to believe a cant puts me at a disadvantage against a left-hander, or is it a legitamate concern?

I don't think so. I cant as much as can be legally (french, way down and to the left), but it is for feel and not because it provides any advantage to angles (I therefore don't see any disadvantages either).

Rick