Fencing and Math Skills

[mifencer]

Interesting article from Orlando Sentinel (4/19/07)

MIND AND BODY

Fencing sharpens mathematics skills
The numbers are in and they add up: The sport enhances analytical and reasoning abilities.
Ernest Scheyder Columbia News Service

April 19, 2007

Mitch Slep took up fencing at the age of 14 because he wanted to improve his coordination and loved the grandeur of the sport. Aside from the aesthetics, there was an aspect of problem solving that appealed to him as he tried to psyche out his opponent's next move.

"It's a really high level of frustration and concentration," says Slep, now 26. "I just felt I was hyper-aware of my opponent's movement."

Little did he know that wielding a sword would enhance his mathematical prowess. What Slep found while serving on his high-school and college teams was that the abstract and analytical aspects of fencing heightened his skill with all things numeric.

"There's a lot of intriguing visualization of space that's involved," says Slep, who majored in math during college and is now a Microsoft software engineer in Seattle. "I haven't picked up a sport with as much technical aspects as fencing. It helped me get where I am today."

What Slep discovered is something sports psychologists are increasingly preaching to educators: Dueling with any one of the three types of fencing swords, whether the lightweight foil, the epee or the thrashing saber, can actually improve math skills.

Fencing improves a perception of geometric shapes -- one literally "draws" in the air with the sword -- and a type of "if/then" logic, explains Dr. John Heil, a sports psychologist and the chairman of the Sports Science, Safety and Technology Committee for the U.S. Fencing Association.

"As a fencer, if you are going to make a guess about an opponent, then it's best to use a math-type skill," Heil says. "You think of your body as a box. You're very much visualizing lines in space."

Charting its origins to 18th-century France, competitive fencing offered participants a chance to duel it out without actually killing one another. Until recently the sport was synonymous with European aristocracy -- most matches were refereed in French, and in the United States fencing was predominantly taught in elite schools. Now, however, fencing is branching out to inner-city youth and suburban America as more educators realize its benefits.

Typical among these new acolytes are the students ages 6 and older who don protective meshed helmets to spar at the New Amsterdam Fencing Academy in Manhattan. They focus intently as they lunge with lightning precision in two-minute matches.

For Frank Mustilli, who has coached fencers for more than 40 years, the sport evokes mathematical repetition. He teaches his pupils to count the seconds of an attack in their heads, to form letters and numbers with their weapons to defend and attack, and to mentally divide the remaining match time on the clock to strategize.

Fencing also teaches them to focus on a problem and react and live with the consequences, says Mustilli, who runs a fencing clinic in Orange, N.J.

One of his stars, Steve Caputo Jr., agrees that eight years of fencing certainly honed his reasoning powers. When he entered Columbia's Graduate School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation two years ago, Caputo was given a piece of paper and told to draw a sport by conceptualizing its mechanical and mathematical principles.

Fencing made the exercise a cinch, as positions and moves when holding the sword are numbered in a sequence, says Caputo, 27. "A lot of what fencing is about is getting a rhythm," he says.

Michael Marx, a fencing coach in Portland, Ore., claims that nearly all of his 35 pupils have straight-A averages, helped, he says, by the precision and discipline of fencing.

"It's a very cerebral sport," says Marx, 48. "It's a physical game of chess."

A strong nod of agreement comes from Dr. Penny Hammrich, founder of Sisters/Brothers in Sports Science, a program in New York that uses sports to educate pupils in math and science. Fencing in particular teaches students about center of gravity, force, motion and other mathematical principles by experiencing them physically, she says.

"It becomes apparent to them that these just aren't words on paper," Hammrich says.

These students might find other upsides to fencing as well. Caputo says the sport helped him win a place at Princeton's undergraduate architecture program.

"Needless to say, fencing has changed my life," Caputo says.

[Chafunkta]

Great article, although I don't really agree with the premise. I think the high math scores and high GPA of fencers is more a result of the people that fencing attracts rather than what fencing brings out of people.

[Purple Fencer]

Obviously they didn;t interview members of Falcon a few years ago....the pool sheet was fubared up 9 ways to sunday....damn sabre fencers!

'Course, in MY sabre pool things were done properly, because we knew what we were doing....

[eac]

I also don't agree that math and fencing involve the same parts of the brain at all. Yeah, you kind of vaguely sometimes have to visualize 3D space in fencing, but the basic successful fencing mindset is highly intuitive and noncerebral. At a foil-B level or above (dunno about the other weapons), conscious thinking is significantly too slow for most actions. You have to short-circuit your conscious mind with intuition and training in order to get better from there. Yeah, you think about what actions you're going to try, but that doesn't involve any of the same skills as math.

In math, OTOH, you spend long hours thinking very very hard, very very consciously, about extremely imaginary structures that only exist in your head. That kind of mindset is really important to get rid of while fencing, and in fact my coach frequently yells at me for being too mathy in my fencing. (I'm a math/computer science major.)

I'd say that fencing has almost as little relation to math as does, say, basketball. Theoretically, you have to do a lot of visualization about where to shoot and how to move about the court, but that's not how people actually do it-- when people actually play basketball, it's all intuitive.

[CvilleFencer]

I would say I am a pretty good argument against this study... Nice thing to wave at schools that you are trying to start a program with though, and potentially a nice recruiting piece for clubs.

I think we should take up a collection to fund a couple more studies showing that fencing cuts cancer risk (it does) and makes participants more appealing to their preferred gender (true as well).

[wbowman]

On the other hand, having the article in hand could be useful if you're trying to .. say ... talk a high school principal into letting you start a fencing club.

[tkexi991]

This article sounds like a paper from the Academy of Fencing Studies...

I know plenty of very good fencers who don't have the best grades. And I know fencers who perform very well academically. I don't think fencing is as much of a factor as playing classical music.

Most sports have a mathematical element, if you take the time to analyze it. There are shooting arcs in basketball, probability in football, prisoner's dilemma in baseball.

I do agree that this article should be cited and quoted for administrators at schools without a fencing program. Whatever works.

[mifencer]

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

I think we should take up a collection to fund a couple more studies showing that fencing cuts cancer risk (it does) and makes participants more appealing to their preferred gender (true as well).

...and we should start appealing for AARP dollars for the Veteran events. Seriously.

[seven6ty]

Ummmm, was there ANY research done whatsoever to back up the premise of this paper? For something like this, it seems like they should have done some research and have statistics to back up their arguments and such... But I did not notice any at all.

[FencingKitten]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Obviously they didn;t interview members of Falcon a few years ago....the pool sheet was fubared up 9 ways to sunday....damn sabre fencers!

'Course, in MY sabre pool things were done properly, because we knew what we were doing....

Damn, you beat me to it. I knew someone was going to have to make cracks about pool sheet math :P

[sloper]

Does anybody else get tired of analytical and reasoning abilities being equated with math skills?

Analytical and reasoning abilities like problem solving and decision making are essential in reading, writing, planning, management, citizenship, and adulthood.

I think there's a big problem with people making this association and then wussing out of doing any critical thinking. "Hey, it's not math, so it doesn't require any real level of thinking. I'll just react and emote instead."

Fencing is great for developing the ability to (quickly) make critical assessments of situations. It's great for developing the ability to control your reactions and decide on the best response. This is not math; it's life properly lived.

Sorry for the rant. I'll go back to playing badminton now.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by sloper

Does anybody else get tired of analytical and reasoning abilities being equated with math skills?

Not Me! But you might want to await the response of Inq!

Originally Posted by sloper

Fencing is great for developing the ability to (quickly) make critical assessments of situations. It's great for developing the ability to control your reactions and decide on the best response. This is not math; it's life properly lived.

Fencing is great for developing the ability to quickly deal with fencing situations. I don´t know how well this translates into non-fencing situations, nor can I remember any study claiming to prove that fencing is superior to other sports in this regard. Much as we want to love our sport, there is probably a great deal to be learnt from, say, cricket, carambole and curling.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Lucifer]

I can see where fencing would be helpful if you're studying vector calculus. Although it didn't help me this semester, at least not noticeably by being fencing and more noticeably by being physical activity.

The other thing, if the premise is true, then B-foil and up would get even greater benefits, wouldn't they? Because they'll have the process completely internalized. Nothing like letting your spinal chord do triple integrals for you.

But yeah, the article does read more like an advertisement than, I don't know, peer reviewed scientific research.

Edit: Oh yeah. The thing I think is most beneficial from fencing is assertiveness training. You just can't win without some reasonable level of assertiveness, right? I mean, sitting there and parrying all day doesn't get you any points...

[Sciurus-Rex]

The guy is using math as a metaphor to teach fencing skills. How nice for him. Glad it seems to be working.

We could teach tactical progression as a framework of arguments and counter-arguments, too. Wouldn't mean there's a causal relationship between fencing and high school debate class.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by FencingKitten

Damn, you beat me to it. I knew someone was going to have to make cracks about pool sheet math :P

You should've SEEN teh pool sheet that day...multiple erasures, bad math...TOTAL inability to understand HOW to full the sheet out...and none of the guys in that pool really paid attention to their sores...they just remember who won and who lost...then they signed off on it.

Father Calhoun was pissed....more so than usual (glad i was in the other pool!)

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Fencing made me dumber.

I should be studying, but instead I'm posting on a website about fencing, or training in some form.

[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by eac

I also don't agree that math and fencing involve the same parts of the brain at all...

Originally Posted by eac

In math, OTOH, you spend long hours thinking very very hard, very very consciously, about extremely imaginary structures that only exist in your head. That kind of mindset is really important to get rid of while fencing, and in fact my coach frequently yells at me for being too mathy in my fencing. (I'm a math/computer science major.)

I'd say that fencing has almost as little relation to math as does, say, basketball. Theoretically, you have to do a lot of visualization about where to shoot and how to move about the court, but that's not how people actually do it-- when people actually play basketball, it's all intuitive.

This is a point where I'd slightly disagree.I definately think that fencing is far more "though evoking" than basketball which may have some SLIGHT carry over. I wouldn't advise anyone to actively think deeply during a point, although between points this may be a good idea, or possibly while looking at opponents before a bout. Fencing involves a good deal of thought not in the application of training but in the process of training itself.

These thought processes, depending on the level of the athlete, may not exactly be taking place. There are plenty of "construction crew" fencers out there. These are fencers who really can only do exactly what is shown to them in a set pattern or given situation. They are given a plan and execute it. All you get from this type of fencer is the given response set. The way this type of fencer turns out is even more dependent on the coach than usual. A fencer in this mindset can only get so far.

There is also another kind of fencer. There is the fencer that takes the instruction a coach gives and actively thinks about and examines it. This second kind of fencer can imagine and put themselves in some kind of way in a situation and understand what's a good or a bad idea in terms of training. This is highly abstract, and fairly complex in terms of understanding subtleties in distance. The ability to visualize a moment and inset the proper pattern, or know which to get help in fixing or learning is a vital skill for any fencer. Also, a full understanding of tactics and the tactical wheel (I see a threadrift coming...) outside of fencing can be called upon unconsciously in the moment.

It's a bit like speed chess. I hate making fencing/chess analogies because often they are so off, but in this case I think it might work. Slow chess is about thinking. A chess game under one minute OTOH is recalling all the things you have thought and patterns you recognize. In the sport of fencing you think out your "slow chess" as preparation to play a round of blitz. You can get your "slow chess" experience from reading books or watching others, but in the end getting experience and understanding from yourself is vital.

The connection to math is negligible. The amount of thinking, however, is high. Fencing like anything can be used as a tool to picture mathematical realities, but so stacking silverware. I don't know if anyone regards that as an educational activity.