ACL injuries

[engarde5990]

I know a common fencing injury is a sprained ankle, or bad ankles, etc, but has anyone torn their ACL? i tore my ACL while fencing a year and a half ago, because i screwed up a lunge that clearly ended badly. A year later I was able to start fencing again, and I was wondering if this has happened to anyone else. not even due to fencing, but if you've had an ACL injury at some point and you fence. I'm curious how you dealt with it and what you do today for it. in fact, any knee injury stories are welcome.
or i guess just freaky injury stories in general.

[rudd]

Not had it happen to me. But we had two fencers in our club tear an ACL last year. Both happened in similar ways I believe. Both retreating and rolled over back foot. Both are on a year out to rehab.

One of the two fencers I mentioned above has continued to train. Initially taking seated bladework lessons and then progressing to standing lesson. She is a high level foilist.

The book Functional training for Sports has an interesting chapter on training to prevent ACL injuries.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

My favorite new fact is that because of the way that women's bodies are built, Knee injuries (especially ACL injuries) are more common with women.


Sometimes if feels as if the question isn't "do I know anyone with ACL injuries" but "do I know anyone without".

One person on my team tore hers at the summercamp she was working at. One person of my team tore her SECOND knee recently (which is how I started fencing epee.....). She completely tore it, and it hurts a lot, but there wasn't any feasible way she could get sugury before the summer, so the doctor told her that if it didn't hurt too much, she could keep fencing, since she really couldn't hurt the ACL more......

[griffindm]

I found out just this past year that I had sustained a complete ACL tear as a youth. I had injured my left knee (I'm a righty) landing after jumping for a basketball , and subsequently tore it completely while placing softball with a full orthopedic articulated brace on the knee. I think the brace actually caused the full tear, as the knee could not 'buckle' to relieve the strain. All of this back in 1974 before the days of arthoscopic surgery. I was an active fence in college at the time.

It also destroyed my meniscus cartilige in that knee, which I had surgery to repair/remove. My surgeon never told me about the ACL damage, possibly because of limited options for repair then, and I did not discover it until I was having pain while fencing on a regular basis. The MRI on the knee showed the ACL was totally gone. The doc was surprised that I still fenced without much trouble.

I had to modify my style in fencing after the original injury to control movement carefully when moving from retreat to advance or lunge quickly, as this often caused lateral instability in the knee, resulting in something locking up and giving me trouble for a couple of days. Repeated instances of this after a summer layoff, coupled with an interest in getting into the Vet events led me to the MRI.

Bottom line for me is that I could have a cadaver doner ACL grafted in, but I would be out for over 4 months from atheletic activity, and it doesn't really bother me that much. If your legs are strong, you'd be surprised how well you can do after an ACL injury. If you are young though, I would check into the self-donor option (they move some of your own tendons around) if you have the insurance and the time available for downtime.

Regards,

Dave

[JEC]

I had a torn L - ACL 12/99 (non-weapon leg), reconstructed 2/00, revised L-meniscus and free fragments 12/01. 6 months after 2nd surgery, I was back fencing. Full lunges took a couple of years. REHAB, REHAB, REHAB... That is the most important thing once a competent Sports Med. Doc reconstruct it.

PM if you have questions.

[engarde5990]

just to clarify, i did get the reconstructive surgery, using the patella tendon. and whoever said, REHAB, yes did lots and lots of that.
but im glad to know other people hurt themselves fencing. I know the particular doctor I had said he had never seen anyone else do that fencing.
im really impressed with whoever kept fencing on it...i tore mine completely as well, and i have no idea how you physically could have done that..i know i would have fallen on my face.

[lindajdunn]

Two meniscus tears here and yes, I continued fencing and finished 7th in the SN WSV50 (first time I made the finals) before learning the results of my MRI. I had surgery. I fenced again at Richmond in December and my knee swelled badly. I've had to restrain from fencing and concentrate on slowly rebuilding muscle in that area.

I hope to be back at the SN but since the knee still feels unsable and I'm still limping, I don't expect to accomplish much.

It was the back leg, which is how I managed to fence at the SN. It was pertty much bent into a permanent en garde position and hurt quite a bit.

[Peach]

I would like to point out that although the comment is correct that women are more prone to certain kinds of injuries, that doesn't mean men aren't too--it's a matter of a slightly higher probability. I am always wary of broad statements about the incidence of problems by gender, because it leads people to think it's an either/or rather than a common/slightly more common situation.

[keith]

Originally Posted by Peach

I would like to point out that although the comment is correct that women are more prone to certain kinds of injuries, that doesn't mean men aren't too--it's a matter of a slightly higher probability. I am always wary of broad statements about the incidence of problems by gender, because it leads people to think it's an either/or rather than a common/slightly more common situation.

Pick one windmill to tilt at a time, I think you're quite busy enough with the apostrophes.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by keith

Pick one windmill to tilt at a time, I think you're quite busy enough with the apostrophes.

What? That's my sig, honey, not my preoccupation--I don't even think about it. Buckaroo Banzai, now, that I do think about. And the mutation of faulty statistical thinking into either-or assertions always gives me a chuckle. My knees are in pretty good shape, though.

[Sabresque]

I have, right ACL/ lateral miniscus (front leg)... reconstruction/rehab+7 months later, i was back to fencing. I injured it lunging in practice, I tried to stop my lunge early, cam down with some force (and probably turned-in foot) and it just buckled. I have also heard since that women have a much higher risk for ACL injury due to the inward angle at which their legs are.

[engarde5990]

that is exactly what happened to me. i was fencing a bit out of control because i was still fairly inexperienced, and i tried to stop lunging in the middle, and landed all wrong...and yes, it was my front/right leg as well..i just fell down...and that was that for a while.

[Beowulfman6]

Two fencers in my club have recently torn an ACL- althoug one did it playing intermural soccer. The other one just started noticing a pain in the back knee durring practice and ended up having the tendon pull away from the bone later. They are both recoevering well, but are still on the DL- it sucks having almost half of our fencers hurt at one time. I think we are going to take up wheelchair fencing!

[pancavalier41]

ACL injuries can be catastrophic to any athlete at any level. About the only injury that could be worse in the lower body is known as the "terrible triad" (tearing your ACL, MCL and medial meniscus at once). The most common mechanism of injury for an acl tear is having a planted foot and an unusual or uncontrolled "twist" of the knee. The plant and twist with a "pop" is a pretty good sign there is damage to the ACL. This can be found in fencing with a poor lunge on the front leg, or some bad mechanics on the back leg. It is uncommon to have an ACL injury to a knee that is not weight bearing or planted.

Women do have a higher ACL rate due to a anatomic trait called the "Q angle". Because, in general, women have wider pelvic bones (hips) for childbearing, the angle at which the femur (upper leg bone) sits in the hip socket is different than most males. Because of the difference in the angle the mechanics of the knees are different. More stress is put on the ligaments in the knees, ergo a higher rate of ACL injuries.

If you want to play sports again at a high level surgery is required. You can live life without an ACL, but sports will be very difficult. The procedures for ACL repair are taking a piece of your own patellar tendon, your hamstring tendon, or a cadaver tendon, and using that as the new ACL. After surgery it will take about 6months of rehabilitation to get back to a normal sports function. I have worked with elite level athletes that get back to competition in as early as 4 months, but that is with rehab and treatment everyday, and many times twice a day. You MUST rehab to get back to competition in a timely manner.

There are strength programs to help prevent ACL tears, but be advised, no amount of prevention will completely prevent an ACL injury. If it wants to go, it will go. Talk to your athletic trainer or orthopedic surgeon about these programs. Anything else you want to know about ACL injuries or any other injuries please let me know.

[Goldgar]

I started fencing due to complete ACL tear. I completely tore my right (weapon-side) ACL in tae kwon do, back in 1981 or so. After reconstruction using a chunk of my quadriceps tendon, and after a year of rehab, I was still unable to continue with TKD, due to the amount of twisting stress on the knee that was involved.

So I quit that, and after a year or two with the leg getting weaker and weaker, I happened across a fencing school in the area. I always wanted to try it, and thought I might be able to do it even with my gimpy leg. I found that I had no trouble with fencing, probably because this was my front knee and the motion in fencing for that leg is all forward and backward, with no twisting or lateral force. In fact, I found that fencing helped strengthen the leg and build the atrophying muscles back into their original strength. I've been fencing ever since, and now that's my good knee (despite the fact that there's no meniscus left in there at all).