College Admissions

[clagen]

I'm afraid this falls under an "if you have to ask . . ." scenario. Back to the "ratings don't matter, are inflated, merely etc." threads, ad nauseum.
Now going back on topic,
there's always LSE (London School of Economics) to consider as well.

[bjacobs]

It wouldn't be polite for me to point out people at Columbia who are excellent fencers but who'd I guess weren't, err, very academically inclined in high school. They exist. So George K's wishlist must have some impact with the admissions committee.

I'm not sure how strong or weak a pull Micahnik has at Penn or Peter Brand at Harvard; I suspect Attilio Tass does not have as much pull as either, given that for a while the Brown team wasn't even technically considered part of the Ivy League, but don't know for sure. I've known Peter Brand for years and spoke to him when applying for schools; he seemed to be saying that grades could sink somone regardless of their fencing, but then again he might have been speaking more specifically to me, as that year David Jakus and Tim Hagamen were applying to Harvard, and Peter let me know in the nicest way because of that he wouldn't be able to push too hard for me if I applied early. I just reread that last sentence: I'm NOT saying Jakus or Hagamen were bad students in high school, just that Mr. Brand was saying he wouldn't have been able to help ME if I had grade issues. After winning the NCAA's last year I can't help but think his influence has gotten stronger.

Bebopradio: coaches at schools with strong fencing teams don't care about your rating per se. They care about your national or international results, your standing on the junior or senior points list, or I suppose possibly results in very strong regional tournaments located near them. Or so it's always seemed to me; Oiuyt could give an insider's perspective. Having those kind of results pretty much entails having a high rating anyway. Of course, a coach has nothing to lose putting your name on a list if there aren't any stronger applicants, so definitely get in touch with coach's at the schools you're applying to and make sure they know your name and interest in their school.

[fencerbill]

There is another factor that I am not sure has been mentioned in this thread. The schools, probably less than 10, that have "fencing scholarships" are going to have certain expectations about attending practice and competitions, additional training, non-college competitions, sometimes getting coaching outside of the college, retaining academic eligibility, cooperating in additional activities that supplement the team budget, etc. I have heard of one school where the fencing team strongly supplements the Athletic Department fencing allocation by cleaning the football stadium after games.

In the Ivy league and other colleges that have "need-based financial aid", the coaches have practically no leverage on the fencers after admission. And I have heard of a very small number of cases where the fencer benefits from their fencing in gaining admission and then ignores the team.

So kids have to decide whether they want to fence, learn or have a balance of both. And the coaches have to consider, beyond fencing capabilities, the "character" of the individual and whether they will strengthen the team rather than become a detriment or distraction.

There is no free lunch, for either coach or fencer.

[electricepeeist]

I would be very, very careful about counting on fencing, or any sport, to get you into college. I'm not nearly as highly ranked as you are, but I'm decent and the Penn coaches knew me well and recruited me pretty heavily for WE. I go to a supercompetitive hs (they don't even bother ranking b/c so many have perfect grades), so while my grades weren't as good as some at my school, they were still top 10% with 6 APs, and I did really well on all the SATs/SATIIs.
In the end, I still didn't get into Penn, or the other Ivies I applied to (tho I wasn't recruited to those). This may be in part because I was quite ambivalent and noncommittal about Penn, so while the coaches definitely wanted me there, they probably were not as vocal to the admissions people about it as they might have been had Penn been my first choice, or because Penn already had taken a bunch of kids from my school. Still, it's never a sure thing.
My school has an amazing crew team, and Dartmouth basically guaranteed a kid on it admittance, so though Cornell was his first choice, he applied ED to Dartmouth. They flat-out rejected him. One of my friends who transferred to Penn her sophomore year and fenced there for a while had the exact same thing happen to her when she applied ED to Northwestern (they recruited her for fencing). I don't mean to scare you off from applying to Wharton, because if you love it, you should apply, and fencing can help you, especially with your results. But I didn't hear these horror stories until after I'd applied and been rejected, and in retrospect, I might have looked more carefully at my options if I'd known how little of a guarantee recruitment is.

[sabrmom]

Take heart, electricepeeist, in knowing that this was apparently the hardest year ever for students, in terms of Ivy admissions.

I'm curious to hear where fencers who are high school seniors this year DID get in, especially if you feel that your fencing helped you get in (even if you were not recruited by the fencing coach).

[eac]

Each year is always the hardest year ever for college admissions (Difficulty in college admissions increases monotonically.). And it being a hard year doesn't make your situation at your second choice college any better, let me tell you.