04-11-2007, 09:12 PM
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#61 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,103
| and a picture of a blatent fleche... excellent.
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Andrew
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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04-12-2007, 06:37 AM
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#62 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Looks like he'd already hit by then to me.
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Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!
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04-12-2007, 07:06 AM
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#63 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,459
| And if he uncrosses before he lands, and lands with his feet in the right order....
NOBODY CARES!
Sorry, I'm really tired of the inane debate about whether a mid-air cross-over, which is corrected before the fencer comes back to earth, constitutes a cross-over or a fleche. It doesn't, and only the most tight-assed rules maven would even raise the issue.
MR
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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04-12-2007, 07:51 AM
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#64 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sabreur  And if he uncrosses before he lands, and lands with his feet in the right order....
NOBODY CARES! |
To be precise, some people don't care. Many do, though, O Cranky One! Quote:
Sorry, I'm really tired of the inane debate about whether a mid-air cross-over, which is corrected before the fencer comes back to earth, constitutes a cross-over or a fleche. It doesn't, and only the most tight-assed rules maven would even raise the issue.
MR
| Tired or not, I am going to try your patience further, inasmuch as I am at a loss to understand where you find that interpretation in the actual rule, the which saith:
"The flèche and any forward movement crossing the legs or
feet is forbidden."
I must be missing the part which says "except if done while in the air" or "while the feet are on the ground". The word "any" is passably capacious, IMO...
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Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!
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04-12-2007, 08:25 AM
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#65 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,459
| And you are going to stand by the side of the strip with a video camera (because without slow motion, it is very hard to be sure whether the legs were crossed or not), and replay the action, and show the ref that "oh look, his legs crossed in the air, so you should card him!"
The interpretation of the rule has gotten to the point it should be at, IMNSHO.... that is, we do not have the rambling to and fro that we had in the steam days, which is a good thing, and we also have an action similar enough to a fleche to keep an element of fencing sabre that was good and proper to it. The sabre-fleche, whether executed with a dainty mid-air crossing of the legs or not, adds to the game.
Unlike visor masks.
The rules also define an advance-lunge as a simple attack, which by definition cannot be stopped into....
t.75.b.2. An attack with a step-forward-lunge is correctly carried out:
— as a simple attack (cf. t.8) when the arm is extending
before the completion of the step-forward and when the
touch arrives at the latest at the end of the lunge.
Go figure.
MR
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
Last edited by sabreur; 04-12-2007 at 08:36 AM.
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04-12-2007, 09:28 AM
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#66 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sabreur And you are going to stand by the side of the strip with a video camera (because without slow motion, it is very hard to be sure whether the legs were crossed or not), and replay the action, and show the ref that "oh look, his legs crossed in the air, so you should card him!" | No, I'm saying that when I'm refereeing I will card it when I see it happen, and so will most referees I know...
I'm usually pretty sure I saw it when it happens.
Soon video replay will be official in a lot of venues, so as a fencer all it will take is an appeal, not a friend with a camera. Quote: |
we do not have the rambling to and fro that we had in the steam days, which is a good thing, and we also have an action similar enough to a fleche to keep an element of fencing sabre that was good and proper to it. The sabre-fleche, whether executed with a dainty mid-air crossing of the legs or not, adds to the game.
| That's another issue entirely, and I agree with you in that respect.
It just isn't in accord with the present written rule, though, to say it's OK as long as the feet are airborne when it happens.
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Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!
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04-12-2007, 10:43 AM
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#67 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Chelmsford, MA
Posts: 1,876
| Thursday's USA results...
The only fencer still fencing for the USA at this point is James Kaull... he is into the 32 in CME...
Other results:
CME:
Adam Watson loses to the 1 seed in the round of 64 15-14... final place: 62nd
Josh Dolezal had a rough day in pools... Won his first bout 5-2, and then lost the other 4... two 5-4s and two 5-1s... he didn't make the cut... final place: 80th
CWF:
Nzingha Prescod lost a tough bout in the 16 7/6... final place 11
Hayley Reese and Kylie McGill both lost in the 64... and each by 2 touches, 15-13 and 10-8 respectively. Final placings: 47th and 35th.
-w
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Prise de Fer SYC 2009 Dates Announced!
Boys: March 14 & 15, 2009
Girls: April 4 & 5, 2009
Events will be held at Dana Hall school again.
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04-12-2007, 12:24 PM
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#68 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,177
| Kaull out in the 32 to Lambert 15-10. | |
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04-12-2007, 12:26 PM
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#69 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Angel, London
Posts: 2,488
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sabreur And you are going to stand by the side of the strip with a video camera (because without slow motion, it is very hard to be sure whether the legs were crossed or not), and replay the action, and show the ref that "oh look, his legs crossed in the air, so you should card him!" | Funnily enough thats what the FIE are doing. | |
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04-12-2007, 01:00 PM
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#70 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,100
| Cadet ME
Kaull 16
Watson 62
Dolezal 80
Cadet WF
Prescod 11
McGill 35
Reese 47
Last edited by teacup; 04-12-2007 at 01:02 PM.
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04-12-2007, 01:12 PM
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#71 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Coast
Posts: 2,414
| Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Apostrophe
CWF:
Nzingha Prescod lost a tough bout in the 16 7/6... final place 11
| Really tough. Nzingha had a 6-4 lead with 1:30 left in the 3rd period. Rushed it a little, and got caught coming in for one-lighters.
10 seconds to go, an awkward clash of blades on both fencer's part....ref immediately goes to the replay, looks at it again, calls attack for Prescod's opponent.
Bucky Leach calls for review, the call is upheld, Nzingah is down a point with just seconds to go. She gets in four attacks, but no joy...and it's over.
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04-12-2007, 03:24 PM
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#72 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,048
| Observations from CME
Hi!
I had a look at the FIE results page for CME. Some observations:
1. 67 fencers made the DE. With only the final left unreported when I looked, 65 fencers have been eliminated. Only two of those have lost in bouts where the winner had less than 15 points. So much for the glacial speed of epee.
2. A surprising (to me) number of DE bouts have ended in results where the loser had less than 10 points. Why the large differential, once one has reached the stages where the chaff have been blown away?
3. One DE bout was not fenced - a Kuwaiti guy forfeited against an Israeli. My hunch is that he was ordered to do so by higher-ups. Arrgh, the heartbreak to be him! 
4. One of the finalists was ranked #20 after the poules, but got lucky with the other results so that his DE path was: bye, win vs. #45, win vs. #52, win vs. #36, win vs. #37, win vs. #1, win vs. #2.
Have a nice time!
Peter Gustafsson | |
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04-12-2007, 03:58 PM
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#73 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,177
| Maybe 16 year old boys are just impatient. | |
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04-12-2007, 07:48 PM
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#74 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I have no home
Posts: 1,965
| Soo...who is that ref in the Besbes v. Demonsant bout that looks curiously like Mr. Sankofa?
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I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
"Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West
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04-13-2007, 06:47 AM
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#75 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,459
| Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder Funnily enough thats what the FIE are doing. | The FIE's kludges are second only to Microsoft's....
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
Last edited by sabreur; 04-13-2007 at 07:03 AM.
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04-13-2007, 07:14 AM
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#76 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Angel, London
Posts: 2,488
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sabreur The FIE's kludges are second only to Microsoft's.... | Actually the instant replay has been recieved very well. | |
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04-13-2007, 07:19 AM
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#77 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 372
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata No, I'm saying that when I'm refereeing I will card it when I see it happen, and so will most referees I know...
I'm usually pretty sure I saw it when it happens.
Soon video replay will be official in a lot of venues, so as a fencer all it will take is an appeal, not a friend with a camera.
That's another issue entirely, and I agree with you in that respect.
It just isn't in accord with the present written rule, though, to say it's OK as long as the feet are airborne when it happens. | Just to clarify, Daryl Homer was yellow-carded for the fleche you see in the photo. | |
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04-13-2007, 11:37 AM
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#78 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Hall School, Wellesely, MA
Posts: 3,821
| JMF:
Chinman out in the 64,
Meinhardt out in the 32,
DeSmet out in the 16.
JWS:
Vloka and Wozniak out in the 32,
Ward in the final.
-m | |
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04-13-2007, 01:38 PM
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#79 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Chelmsford, MA
Posts: 1,876
| Becca loses in the 4 15-9 to Ekaterina Diatchenk (RUS)
-w
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Prise de Fer SYC 2009 Dates Announced!
Boys: March 14 & 15, 2009
Girls: April 4 & 5, 2009
Events will be held at Dana Hall school again.
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04-13-2007, 06:34 PM
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#80 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 372
| Approximately 70 photos from Men's Cadet Epee - Women's Cadet Foil (April 12) are now available for viewing at FencingPhotos.com.
Check out the photo at the beginning, which shows how video refereeing is set up. | |
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