Fencing Form

[FenceToTheT]

Hi,


I've been encountering several problems when I train and it has to do with my form. I'll list them down:

1. Whenever I advance (I'm right handed, saber), my right foot starts to move forward towards the left instead of a straight line.

2. The same goes for whenever I lunge then I recover, my right foot is more on the left side instead of being aligned with my left foot.

3. As I advance, my coach constantly tells me "Knee out" refering to my left knee. As for my right knee, he always pushes it to the right (since my right knee doesn't face straight or forward as I advance. It tilts to the left ) saying that I should keep an eye on my form.

As for my speed, my coach always tells me that advancing in little steps works faster than big ones but when I do make little steps, my legs tend to stiffen and I end up having a hard time catching up and I run out of breath.

It would be great if anyone could advice me on what to do to correct and improve my form and if anyone has tips.

Thanks.

[larkmaj]

Not sure if you've tried it, but if you practice on a straight line on the floor, being sure to keep everything on your front leg in line with it as you advance, retreat, and lunge, and keep everything on your back leg perpindicular to it, with your heel on the line, it may help with the first 3.

[Joe biebel]

Currently, you are "twisting" your body into your enguarde position. when you lift your front foot to advance or lunge, you body "straightens out" (moves the foot in the air sideways) when you have one foot in the air.

Open up your stance. Move your back foot out and away from your front foot a few inches (so that they are not in the same line) and change the angle of your back foot from 90 deg. to 45 deg in relation to your front foot.

Let your upper body rest comfortably over your hips at a relaxed diagonal. A lot of fencers try to turn sideways in their enguarde and cause problems for their footwork and bladework. This will take away the twist in your advance and lunge, and allow you a comfortable almost natural, neutral stance that can do anything.

[FoilyDeath]

As to your legs getting stiff and you getting tired whilst making slow fast slow fast steps, yet, it happens. It sounds like your coach knows what hes talking about. All that remains now is practise, practise, and yeah, more practise.

[RITFencing]

Good advice there. One other thing I will recommend is doing footwork on a balance beam, or just a sidewalk curb. You will definitely know when your feet move incorrectly, and it will help you learn to make those small corrections without thinking too much about it. It is also good for balance and developing speed.

[parrythis]

As for my right knee, he always pushes it to the right (since my right knee doesn't face straight or forward as I advance. It tilts to the left ) saying that I should keep an eye on my form.

One possibility - you may need to tuck your butt more.

One other possibility - it's just your anatomy, accept it. My right knee tilts to the left no matter what I do. I have seen others with the same problem. It's not a big deal. It should not affect your ability to fence well.

Keep your right foot as straight as possible. If you find it pointing to the left, mentally try to keep it pointed slightly to the right and it will fall into a straight position on its own.

[FenceToTheT]

I've tried practicing in a straight line on the floor but haven't been consistent in practicing it as often as I should. But I will this time. My coach told me that I should put my weight in the middle that way it is evenly distributed and yes, I do turn sideways (left) when I advance but I don't do it on purpose. I find it to be a little difficult to keep my body relaxed and my head facing forward (which sometimes causes me to lunge and advance to the left instead of a straight line).

One other possibility - it's just your anatomy, accept it. My right knee tilts to the left no matter what I do. I have seen others with the same problem. It's not a big deal. It should not affect your ability to fence well.

Keep your right foot as straight as possible. If you find it pointing to the left, mentally try to keep it pointed slightly to the right and it will fall into a straight position on its own.

I hope it just is my anatomy but I'll definitely focus on keeping my right foot straight.

[erooMynohtnA]

Hi,


I've been encountering several problems when I train and it has to do with my form. I'll list them down:

1. Whenever I advance (I'm right handed, saber), my right foot starts to move forward towards the left instead of a straight line.

2. The same goes for whenever I lunge then I recover, my right foot is more on the left side instead of being aligned with my left foot.

3. As I advance, my coach constantly tells me "Knee out" refering to my left knee. As for my right knee, he always pushes it to the right (since my right knee doesn't face straight or forward as I advance. It tilts to the left ) saying that I should keep an eye on my form.

As for my speed, my coach always tells me that advancing in little steps works faster than big ones but when I do make little steps, my legs tend to stiffen and I end up having a hard time catching up and I run out of breath.

It would be great if anyone could advice me on what to do to correct and improve my form and if anyone has tips.

Thanks.

Your balance might be off. I notice a lot of drift from students who put their weight on their heels. The easy solution is to put the weight on the balls of their feet. I don't know if that's what you're doing, though.

As to the little steps, whatever. Coaches are known for making up stupid reasons for good ideas. Are small steps faster? Of course not, don't be stupid. Is there an advantage to small steps? Yes, they promote control. You can always speed up a controlled action, but you can't always control a fast action.

[LeftHanded]

I would suggest practicing on a straight line on the floor. Doing your footwork slow and methodically and focusing on every detail should correct these probalems. I was helping some new peoplei in my lcub and they were doing the samething. To get teh point across I had each of them get on the line and when one of their back feet came off of the line I they both had to do 10 push-ups.

[Allen Evans]

As to the little steps, whatever. Coaches are known for making up stupid reasons for good ideas. Are small steps faster? Of course not, don't be stupid.

Does it take longer to take two small steps than one large step? I'm confused about this statement.

A

[parrythis]

Does it take longer to take two small steps than one large step? I'm confused about this statement.

A

Ha! Good catch. This deserves a test. I'll need a fixed distance to traverse as fast as possible, once with small steps and once with large steps, and someone with a stopwatch.

One test is, after all, worth 1000 opinions.

[RITFencing]

As to the little steps, whatever. Coaches are known for making up stupid reasons for good ideas. Are small steps faster? Of course not, don't be stupid. Is there an advantage to small steps? Yes, they promote control. You can always speed up a controlled action, but you can't always control a fast action.

There's another huge advantage you're missing... small steps give you more chances to change your action. If you are attacked while making a large advance, you can be caught effectively flat footed. Doing a series of small ones gives you many more opportunities to bail out. Likewise, doing a series of small steps allows you to change your action into an attack with much more ease, and at the right time, for the same reason.

And, as you mentioned it allows you more control. Not just over form, but over tempo and distance, which tend to be MUCH more important than top speed. There are is a time and a place for large steps, sure. But watch when happens with top level fencers: they take big steps until they get near fencing distance, then they start using small ones. There are exceptions, especially in foil and sabre (long attacks) but these tend to come once an attack has already started.

[keith]

One test is, after all, worth 1000 opinions.

but what exactly are we testing?

100 yard dash, or something slightly different.

[RITFencing]

Does it take longer to take two small steps than one large step? I'm confused about this statement.

A

In my experience, big steps can lead to faster movement, but only when they are almost running, which leads to poor balance and an inability to change direction even between steps (balance being another thing I should have mentioned.)

[Allen Evans]

Ha! Good catch. This deserves a test. I'll need a fixed distance to traverse as fast as possible, once with small steps and once with large steps, and someone with a stopwatch.

Fortunately for us, the clock on the box isn't there to time our ability to cover the length of the strip. Small steps OCCUR faster than big steps, but they don't cover as much ground as big steps do, because the distance being covered is -- well -- smaller.

As RIT hints, footwork isn't about moving up and down the strip (otherwise, we would all be walking/running) but about control of distance, and the ability to change direction. There is a balance in the interval of foot contacts to change direction and speed, and the distance that has to be covered by the step.

When a fencer understands that balance, and how it changes, their ability to control their opponent improves dramatically.

A

[parrythis]

but what exactly are we testing?

100 yard dash, or something slightly different.

Ah! Good question! Define the context.

Since we are fencers and are constrained by the boundaries of the piste, timing a 100 yard dash would not be useful as it would introduce the variable of endurance over a distance that we do not need to cover. Timing individual steps is too small an increment to get consistent, accurate data. I suggest we time someone advancing 2/3 of the length of a piste using small steps then do the same with large steps.

The statement that small steps are faster is nearly self-evident. It does, however, imply that small steps will make you go faster, which may or may not be the case.

[keith]

The statement that small steps are faster is nearly self-evident. It does, however, imply that small steps will make you go faster, which may or may not be the case.

Well as RITF and Allen point out; when it comes to fencing going faster is not just about speed, it's more "going and changing your mind and then coming back again" faster rather than faster faster.

[Allen Evans]

Speed is good for something. But not for everything.

A

[keith]

Speed is good for something. But not for everything.

A

Just because the feet move fast it does not mean the body does.

[erooMynohtnA]

Does it take longer to take two small steps than one large step? I'm confused about this statement.

A

I don't know if it does, but I know someone can cover the distance of the strip in less time if they take huge, leaping, stupidly big steps.

There's another huge advantage you're missing... small steps give you more chances to change your action. If you are attacked while making a large advance, you can be caught effectively flat footed. Doing a series of small ones gives you many more opportunities to bail out. Likewise, doing a series of small steps allows you to change your action into an attack with much more ease, and at the right time, for the same reason.

And, as you mentioned it allows you more control. Not just over form, but over tempo and distance, which tend to be MUCH more important than top speed. There are is a time and a place for large steps, sure. But watch when happens with top level fencers: they take big steps until they get near fencing distance, then they start using small ones. There are exceptions, especially in foil and sabre (long attacks) but these tend to come once an attack has already started.

I kept control somewhat vague for that very reason. You can control many things including distance, tempo, speed, and what actions you do by using small steps. By making the step a smaller discrete unit, you chop up the tempo into finer units.

I read an article in Swordmaster by Ed Korfanty about how he thought big steps were the cat's ass. He had a point, but I think it's of almost no use to anyone except top fencers.

Speed is good for something. But not for everything.

A

I agree entirely.