Foil Blades for kids

[momtotwinfoilists]

My boys are almost 13 and have been fencing for 5 years. They are just starting to get good. They each own 3 weapons at this point and have just switched coaches/clubs. Their old coach used generic blades from American Fencers, he seemed to think they had good QC there. Didn't think FIE was worth it. He was very big on cost and quality as a set, and understood "cost is an issue".

The new coach recommends FIE (Leon Paul). Cost is a big deal to us (try lessons for two, tournaments for two, equipment for two...) Nationals are out of our price range at this point. Is it worth it for me to be spending close to $100 on a blade when I can get 4 generics for the same price? We get them unwired and the boys do their own work (with a little help).

And is 6 weapons for 2 kids a reasonable goal? With FIE blades? Would it be different with generic blades?

[erooMynohtnA]

Most people advise serious fencers to get FIE blades, because they last longer. You supposedly end up saving money in the long run. Your mileage may vary.

If you're happy with your blades, and you're not breaking them quickly, I would just stick with what you're using. Three weapons per child sounds like a good number regardless of FIE or non-FIE. Just because you get a foil that's FIE doesn't mean it won't malfunction. You want to have a couple extras.

And if you're only looking for bang for your buck when it comes to durability, don't go Leon Paul, go Vniti. Vniti makes a heavy blade that might not be appropriate for children, but they have a reputation for supreme durability.

[fencerbill]

My boys are almost 13 and have been fencing for 5 years. They are just starting to get good. They each own 3 weapons at this point and have just switched coaches/clubs. Their old coach used generic blades from American Fencers, he seemed to think they had good QC there. Didn't think FIE was worth it. He was very big on cost and quality as a set, and understood "cost is an issue".

The new coach recommends FIE (Leon Paul). Cost is a big deal to us (try lessons for two, tournaments for two, equipment for two...) Nationals are out of our price range at this point. Is it worth it for me to be spending close to $100 on a blade when I can get 4 generics for the same price? We get them unwired and the boys do their own work (with a little help).

And is 6 weapons for 2 kids a reasonable goal? With FIE blades? Would it be different with generic blades?

Let me put it this way. College coaches, with fixed budgets, buy FIE Foil and Epee blades. So they think they spend, in the long run, less money buying FIE blades.

It sounds like you want someone available (your kids, yourself, significant other or anyone available to you) to do armoring. By that I mean changing blades, rewiring blades, checking blades and body cords before tournaments and fixing body cords.

Really best if your kids learn to do it themselves. Six weapons between them is not bad but as soon as they start getting into higher rounds at tournaments you should have backup blades for the weapons as well. There is time to change blades between rounds. Very soon, if not now, there should be at least a total of 5 body cords. If one breaks, by the next bout they will again have to have 2 working BCs.

For them to be able to check and fix things will have the consequence that they will have much less anxiety. A little setback of broken equipment will just mean they have to do a chore, fix it. It should not inhibit their confidence. A little life lesson also.

[Joe biebel]

The thing with FIE blades is that you still need good points on them and good armoring practices. Three perfect weapons each, sounds fine, especially if the are willing to share in a bind. Hopefully their gear is similar enough that they can share. Even the best, most durable blades, can be out of commision if a barrel breaks or is dented. If you do decide to buy FIE foil blades (I assumed they fence foil) get LP points. They are "tanks". This will allow your 3 weapons an extra safety measure for durability.

[jbenjamin]

in my opinion, i think you should check if your children really need them afterwards worry about the price. if your kids are good and the coach says thatthey have potential, go for it.

[JMcC]

My boys are almost 13 and have been fencing for 5 years. They are just starting to get good. They each own 3 weapons at this point and have just switched coaches/clubs. Their old coach used generic blades from American Fencers, he seemed to think they had good QC there. Didn't think FIE was worth it. He was very big on cost and quality as a set, and understood "cost is an issue".

The new coach recommends FIE (Leon Paul). Cost is a big deal to us (try lessons for two, tournaments for two, equipment for two...) Nationals are out of our price range at this point. Is it worth it for me to be spending close to $100 on a blade when I can get 4 generics for the same price? We get them unwired and the boys do their own work (with a little help).

And is 6 weapons for 2 kids a reasonable goal? With FIE blades? Would it be different with generic blades?

If they've been fencing for 5 years, and they're getting good, you should already have a reasonble idea of how 3 non-FIE blades each is holding up.

Changing coaches isn't going to suddenly make those blades cease to work. Assess your needs as an ongoing process; just like buying them clothes. If what they have isn't working any more, it's time to upgrade, otherwise stick with what's already working.

Additionally, there are mid-level, mid-priced blades between "generic" and Leon Paul; try them out next if you see a need.

[larkmaj]

Just as a side question. I always forget the size regulations on blades. Does Y14 allow 5 blades? Although, at 13 you can fence in open competitions anyway so you would probably want 5s for those. Just something to think about since FIE is only for 5s.

[Joe biebel]

Just as a side question. I always forget the size regulations on blades. Does Y14 allow 5 blades? Although, at 13 you can fence in open competitions anyway so you would probably want 5s for those. Just something to think about since FIE is only for 5s.

The last sentence is not correct. I use #4 length FIE blades in tournaments and #5's to train. I also purchased #3 length FIE blades from LP a few years ago. Still, only Y10 are required to use "0" or "2" length blades.

[larkmaj]

The last sentence is not correct. I use #4 length FIE blades in tournaments and #5's to train. I also purchased #3 length FIE blades from LP a few years ago. Still, only Y10 are required to use "0" or "2" length blades.

Do they actually have an FIE stamp on them? I thought shorter blades are basically made by milling down full length blades. This would remove the FIE stamp and therefore invalidate it as an FIE blade. Although the quality is still there.

I was also just wondering where the blade length requirements are. I didn't think it went to Y14

[Joe biebel]

Do they actually have an FIE stamp on them? I thought shorter blades are basically made by milling down full length blades. This would remove the FIE stamp and therefore invalidate it as an FIE blade. Although the quality is still there.

I was also just wondering where the blade length requirements are. I didn't think it went to Y14

( http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/content/view/2114/138/)
see the last line for blade restrictions.

Some manufacturers do exactly as you say. This "freaked me out" when I ordered several short blades for the vet world championships and got "cut down" FIE blades. Not cool. Sorry for the thread drift.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

The last sentence is not correct. I use #4 length FIE blades in tournaments and #5's to train. I also purchased #3 length FIE blades from LP a few years ago. Still, only Y10 are required to use "0" or "2" length blades.

Joe-

I'm curious about the advantages you see for an adult in using the shorter blade...do you do it for the point control or speed? Of course we're all aware of your vertical challenge...if you remember I'm about 5'10" myself...not exactly on the tall side. The other thing I just started dealing with is tendonitis in my right (weapon) elbow. I wonder if changing to #4 blades would be helpful, or if I should switch to leftie. I know changing arms is something you've dealt with, too.

GO MAINE HOCKEY! BEAT mICHIGAN sTATE!

[Joe biebel]

Joe-

I'm curious about the advantages you see for an adult in using the shorter blade...do you do it for the point control or speed? Of course we're all aware of your vertical challenge...if you remember I'm about 5'10" myself...not exactly on the tall side. The other thing I just started dealing with is tendonitis in my right (weapon) elbow. I wonder if changing to #4 blades would be helpful, or if I should switch to leftie. I know changing arms is something you've dealt with, too.

GO MAINE HOCKEY! BEAT mICHIGAN sTATE!

I'll PM you about this, as the original subject is important and more advice is might get distracted

[larkmaj]

Joe-

I'm curious about the advantages you see for an adult in using the shorter blade...do you do it for the point control or speed? Of course we're all aware of your vertical challenge...if you remember I'm about 5'10" myself...not exactly on the tall side. The other thing I just started dealing with is tendonitis in my right (weapon) elbow. I wonder if changing to #4 blades would be helpful, or if I should switch to leftie. I know changing arms is something you've dealt with, too.

GO MAINE HOCKEY! BEAT mICHIGAN sTATE!

I would suggest starting a new thread on this topic, might get some interesting discussion.

[keropie]

I myself would not go with 6 FIE LP blades for two 13 year olds. I mean, sure, if they're actually on the points list and they know that they like those blades, maybe. But there are so many other options that seem like they'd be better bang for the buck, like Vniti FIE blades, or even just a decent non FIE blade, or, as others have said, if their current blades are holding up, get them some more of those.

The only time they'll ever HAVE to have FIE stuff is for FIE events (international events), though if they stick with the sport and decide that they really want some, generally FIE blades seem cost effective to me (though I have no personal experience with the LP blades, due to cost, and me being poor).

Oh, and for whatever it's worth, not all college coaches use FIE blades. I know that they last time UNC bought FIE blades was about 8 years ago (when we bought an early batch of Vniti FIE blades).

[Barry Paul]

And if you're only looking for bang for your buck when it comes to durability, don't go Leon Paul, go Vniti. Vniti makes a heavy blade that might not be appropriate for children, but they have a reputation for supreme durability.

I think the your kid is using size 5 blades so buying a stiff blade is just ok, if the age group is such that a smaller size is used stiffness it would be an issue. We all want kids to keep on fencing, not stop because they have been hit with a poker.

Leon Paul have both standard Leon Paul made F.I.E. blades and viniti F.I.E. blades (which are on the stif and heavy side, but do last well ) We will be getting a range of size 3 viniti blades made to our specification by the Summer, so some kids might get the best of both worlds long life and not too stiff. Barry Paul

[JayhawkPawn]

I don't know anything about the shorter blades, but I know a good bit about non-FIE blades.

BG, Absolute, Dynamo, Other chinese made blades - Buy for beginners, or for clubs, if your kids have been fencing for 4+ years, these are not for them.

sTm - Decent mid-range blade, a few steps above the chinese stuff, and they come from whippy to super-stiff, ask your dealer to hand pick them for you.

Leon Paul "etoile" (I probably misspelled that.) - A very good low mid-range blade. Decently priced, and I've seen them take some disgusting bends and come out fine.

Leon Paul "France" - Very light, and most of them that I've seen have been whippy and fragile, by comparison, like a high-quality Chinese-blade.

Viniti FIE - Friggin tanks. They start out rebar stiff, but after about 6 to 8 months of hard use, they loosen a little, and turn into very good blades.

Leon Paul FIE - Someone else can fill you in on these.

LP "Flickmaster" or "Glub Pro" - Do not buy, these are far too expensive to be cost-efficient, perhaps if LP buys your stuff for you, but not for two 13 year olds.


Oddly enough, I don't see the same amount of high level foil fencers using very expensive blades like I do in epee. Anyone else notice this? I wouldn't reccomend LP tips for foil, because they're not that much better than any of the others, except for French Foil tips. If you buy french foil tips, then you deserve to have to fix your kids' weapons as oten as you will have to. Sport 7 foil tips are good enough.