Loyalty Question

[LeftHanded]

This is a personal problem but I thought I would ask it anyways. I am in real jam. I am really loyal person and have strong ties to my club. The thing is I went to nationals in the team event, we didn't do so well. Here is the thing. If I switch clubs I will be on a team that has real potential. I started at my club and I feel like I am leaving the coach there if I swithc clubs. I have a lot of teammates that are also leaving for various reasons and I don't want to be another let down. Any advice? People have told me that I need to look after myself and not worry about the club. That doesn't seem right.

[oiuyt]

First of all, don't switch clubs to be on a strong team for nationals.

Switch clubs if belonging to the other club is going to be better for your development as a fencer.

-B

[keith]

People have told me that I need to look after myself and not worry about the club.

This is of course true.

That doesn't seem right.

... and so is this.


How much does going to nationals with a competitive team matter?

also remember that where you principally fence/train vs which club you are a USFA registered member do not have to be the same.

and sod's law will of course dictate that if you switch clubs your new club will immediately acquire a new member(s) who bump you off the team.

[LeftHanded]

Sorry what is sod's law? Also, I have been taking private lessons at a club. The down side is that it is an hour away from where I live. The club I am currently at is not helping me that much. Also I am going to college next year and I don't know if I could get down often enough to make the membership worth the money.

[Peach]

Sorry what is sod's law? Also, I have been taking private lessons at a club. The down side is that it is an hour away from where I live. The club I am currently at is not helping me that much. Also I am going to college next year and I don't know if I could get down often enough to make the membership worth the money.

Sod's last name is Murphy. It doesn't sound as if you're in a great situation but it also doesn't sound as if moving now would do much good either.

[oiuyt]

Sorry what is sod's law?

Same as Murphy's. Or Finagle's.

-B

[erooMynohtnA]

It's your job to become a better fencer. It's your coach's job to help you facilitate that. If another club would serve you better in that respect, neither you nor your coach are doing your jobs. Not all coaches can produce champions. Sometimes you need to move on.

I see too many fencers held back by their refusal to leave a bad club because they feel a sense of commitment. You paid your club dues and lesson fees, I don't see what else you owe. There are many reasons to stay at a club with inferior competitive results: you like the people, it's at a convenient time or location, or it's cheaper. A feeling of obligation because you started fencing there isn't one.

Another thing: I often see fencers held back by their own coaches. My old coach used to play the loyalty card and a lot of other dirty tricks. The simple fact of the matter is that there are far better coaches than her in the area, but she doesn't want to lose the $70 a month that fencer pays, so she'll do anything to him at her club, whether it's good for him or not.

[oiuyt]

Note that switching club representation may not be done mid-season exception under exception circumstances and requires approval from the national Board of Directors.

At best you're looking at 2008 Nationals.

What part of the country, what clubs, what school?

-B

[Allen Evans]

This is a personal problem but I thought I would ask it anyways. I am in real jam. I am really loyal person and have strong ties to my club. The thing is I went to nationals in the team event, we didn't do so well. Here is the thing. If I switch clubs I will be on a team that has real potential. I started at my club and I feel like I am leaving the coach there if I swithc clubs. I have a lot of teammates that are also leaving for various reasons and I don't want to be another let down. Any advice? People have told me that I need to look after myself and not worry about the club. That doesn't seem right.

I think I'll channel the ghost of Mr. Epee for this post:

"It sounds as though your membership on your club's team is the LEAST of your problems."

Allen

[eac]

Loyalty is always 100% self-destructive. It means, essentially, that you know your club is crap, relatively speaking, but you stay with it because you feel illogical. I stayed with my first club for five years out of loyalty, and it meant that a) I didn't get recruited to the two colleges I most wanted to go to, since I was an E at the time when I could probably have been an A with points if I had started at a better club, or if I had switched later, at least a C or a B, and b) once I finally did switch (catalyzed by my move to college) I had to retrain for about a year, removing all my old habits, before I could improve again.
Switch now, so you don't have that problem, or at least you have less of that problem. Are you a junior in HS now?

[LeftHanded]

Allen, what do you mean? Are you talking about the fact taht my coach may be holding me back?

Senior, senior in high school. I graduate in May. Yeah Yeah!!!! I think that because the club I am at know is a high school club I will be able to switch. My friend switched a few weeks ago.

[Sciurus-Rex]

Follow your bliss.

[Hobbes]

if your club isn't helping you, you gotta leave and find something better. Let everyone know that it is not a comment on them, you just need to try out different avenues of learning. It is always best to have a broad scope of instruction anyways. If no one at your old club can understand that, well then just beat them at tournaments with your new skills!

If you are close enough to them to feel this loyal, then they should respect your decision, and still want to hangout or practice with you.

it is like everyone said man, be true to yourself.

[LeftHanded]

Yeah, I thanks for all the advice; it has helped a lot. I think that I will switch clubs and then take what I've learned and go back to my old club and help out there. It is a high-school club so that shouldn't be a problem.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Yeah, I thanks for all the advice; it has helped a lot. I think that I will switch clubs and then take what I've learned and go back to my old club and help out there. It is a high-school club so that shouldn't be a problem.

You're planning to go back to highschool?

Jk.

Dude, its not your club thats holding you back.

[LeftHanded]

You're planning to go back to highschool?

Jk.

Dude, its not your club thats holding you back.

Back to high school, What?! I am a senior. Anyways if it isn't my coach then what is it. You can probably give better advice than most peopl just because you know me.

[Phrogger]

Breaking up is hard to do. Like with a relationship, there is a right way to do it and a wrong way. Make sure you express your gratitude for how far they've brought you and explain your reasons for leaving. Do it in person, not over the phone or by letter. Resolve to stick to your decision and don't let them guilt you into changing your mind. They may take it hard anyway, but at least you'll have given it your best shot. With luck, you won't have to endure awkward run-ins at tournaments and eventually your relationship with them will at least be civil.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons to change clubs. But the fencing community is still a relatively small one, so doing it as tactfully as possible will pay off down the road.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Back to high school, What?! I am a senior. Anyways if it isn't my coach then what is it. You can probably give better advice than most peopl just because you know me.

I almost made a huge post in reply to this, but I realized I could sum it up and get the point across better....

Ok, here goes......

Quit expecting so much of your coach and your club, because they will not deliver. YOU are responsible for your improvement. If you think you're pouring alot of sweat into what you're doing, then find ways to pour more.

[eac]

DFP: Clearly, you are proof that one can do very well without a coach. However, that doesn't mean that no coaches anywhere will ever deliver. My algorithm since deciding that I wanted to be a serious competitor was as follows:

1) Pick a coach who has gotten very good results, both for himself and for his fencers.
2) Do what he says.

It's worked very well, results-wise. I've had to work hard, but I benefited greatly from being pointed in the right direction over and over again.
And, I think this is the algorithm that most of the top fencers follow. Your route is a lot more work, since in effect you're doing all the thinking of being a coach as well as all the thinking of being a fencer, and you have less of the benefit of seeing yourself from the outside. And, your coach (i.e. you) has less experience, and can spot mistakes less quickly than a coach who's already produced good national-level fencers. I admire your talent, determination, and accomplishment, but I think you took the harder and longer of two roads to get to where you are.

[Phaeton]

Having a coach isn't the end all of learning how to fence. Eventually a fencer should become proficient enough to have an understanding of what is a good or a bad idea, and what patterns there should be inset. Then that fencer can learn the actions that he or she needs to. At some point there needs to be an understanding of the action, and there needs to be questioning and adjustment of what the coach says. It might be right; it might be wrong, but just because someone with an all black fencing outfit told you it's true doesn't mean that's the case. An athlete needs to take an active role in his or her fencing education.

DFP is right about a coaching relationship working in two directions. However, I disagree with the idea, not directly implied by DFP, that it all comes down to is training hard. It's far more important to train in an intelligent manner and ensure that all suffering endured through training is "creative".

I know a few great guys who put in hours a week training. I wish I had the kind of time they have. They really give everything they have to become better fencers, but in the last little bit they have gone nowhere. Part of the reason is they think that everything their coach says is gospel, and don't analyze results for themselves. They train hard; they practice actions, but all the actions they practice are "closed eyes". They bout, but they don't drill. They try their hardest but they aren't training smart because they don't know how due to a fanatical devotion to a coach. They are running against a brick wall. It really kills me inside to see because there's all this effort and potential stuck into actions which aren't going to work. They are being held back by someone who is afraid of encouraging thought because it might cause him to lose athletes.

Loyalty has a place and value in day to day life. Blocking the progression of athletes isn't it.