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Thread: Tournament results on askfred

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    Senior Member gillaspy's Avatar
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    Tournament results on askfred

    I need to vent : Why do tournament organizers take so long to post results on askfred? Don't they understand that the total experience (and bragging rights) depend on knowing how everyone did?

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    Senior Member RebelFencer's Avatar
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    Chill out hot pants.

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    Senior Member peet's Avatar
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    Actually, I hear this complaint from other people too. Some tournament organizers wait a along time, and some never do post the results. It's a bit of a bummer, and I try to encourage people to post results as soon as they can. It's especially a drag for those fencers who get eliminated, and for whatever reason can't or don't stay for the end of the event, thinking "oh well, i'll see where I placed when they post the results".

    -p

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    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peet View Post
    It's especially a drag for those fencers who get eliminated, and for whatever reason can't or don't stay for the end of the event, thinking "oh well, i'll see where I placed when they post the results".
    Several possible solutions to that dilemma...

    -B
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

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    Senior Member parrythis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelFencer View Post
    Chill out hot pants.
    No, gillaspy has a point.

    Many years ago (before I started fencing seriously and before personal computers and the internet) I was heavily involved in competing in and organizing road rallys, autocrosses, sports car races, etc. The cardinal rule for organizers at the time was that results should be mailed out to the participants within a week of the competition. (That meant using a typewriter, a copy machine, and lots of stamps!) Any organizer that didn't follow this rule would get harrassed until they did.

    I, too, find that many fencing tournament organizers are reluctant to publish results. As a person that tracks their performance improvements with competition results, I find this to be very frustrating. I depend on knowing how I finished in order to guage my performance. I keep detailed records of events that I have entered so I can track my performance over time.

    About a year ago I posted a poll on f.net that asked how important getting tournament results were to fencers. The preponderance of opinions was in favor of getting published results in some form or another. So, gillaspy and I are not alone in this opinion.

    These days, the internet, the use of Fencing Time, and the use of askfred make the publishing of results EASY in comparison to what we had to do back in my road rally days. There really is no excuse not to.

    I have been known to e-mail fencing tournament organizers repeatedly until they got me the published results that I felt my entry fee entitled me to. I encourage others to do the same. Organizers need to know that this is part of the job that they signed on for and it is important to their customers.
    One test is worth a thousand opinions.
    I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was. - Toby Keith
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    Senior Member peet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oiuyt View Post
    Several possible solutions to that dilemma...

    -B
    LOL! agreed....

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    Senior Member Tomas N's Avatar
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    Two possible explanations. One is laziness. The other is an unwillingness to let anyone examine the "official" results too closely. I'd suspect the first for about 90% of the cases.

    Tomas

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    You should come to the better run SW Section tournmanets then, we get results put up on FRED as the events end.

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    Senior Member IHateMrPotatohead's Avatar
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    Actually, there is a 3rd possibility as well. Our division doesn't allow us to post results until they have been "verified".
    Quote Originally Posted by IHateMrPotatohead
    I can't think of anything to put down there!

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    Member debrobjosh's Avatar
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    What about NACs?

    What about the posting of NAC results?
    Is there a technical problem holding this up, an unwillingness problem, or just a lack of time problem?

    It would be really, really nice to have all results in one place.

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    Needs to get Outside Inquartata's Avatar
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    And some tournaments will publish results on their own website in lieu of sending them to FRED...
    Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!

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    Member epeeinacup666's Avatar
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    One way I get the results from local tourneys that I'm in(Southwest Section),since almost all of them are run on a computer and printed up anyway,is to ask for a copy of them from the tourney organizers after the tourney is over...I know is it hard to do when you get knocked out early and you have to get back home,catch a flight,etc.,but at least I have it in my hands the day of the event and I have been lucky to get results from tourneys that never get posted online(be it AskFred or whoever)...well,that's my $0.02 worth.

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    Senior Member parrythis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquartata View Post
    And some tournaments will publish results on their own website in lieu of sending them to FRED...
    That would be acceptable. I don't care how they're published, as long as they're published within a reasonable amount of time (less than a week).
    One test is worth a thousand opinions.
    I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was. - Toby Keith
    Living life without taking the occasional risk is like lemon-pepper chicken without the lemon-peper. It's just chicken.

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    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquartata View Post
    And some tournaments will publish results on their own website in lieu of sending them to FRED...
    For one thing because a number of the software packages don't yet talk to FRED, the way FT does. I know this is an active area of development, but it's not yet completed. Run an event in, say, enguarde, and you have lots of pretty, postable results. But nothing that you can give to FRED without a bunch of additional hand entry. So sometimes it gets posted elsewhere and FRED never finds out.

    Quote Originally Posted by debrobjosh
    What about the posting of NAC results?
    Is there a technical problem holding this up, an unwillingness problem, or just a lack of time problem?
    Sure. Who would you like to do it? The organizers of the NAC don't (currently) use FRED. BC members of FRED should be able to set up virtual NAC events and then enter the data, but it's a lot of work for minimal thanks.

    As with Enguarde, I believe XSeed (what the USFA uses for non-team events) doesn't have any way of directly giving FRED results. So someone would have to hand enter the thousand plus results each month. Likely to start happening any time soon? Don't think so.

    Technical or lack of time, take your choice. Unwillingness may or may not play into it, but with the others it really doesn't matter.

    -B
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

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    Senior Member gillaspy's Avatar
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    My issue with this

    I drove over 200 miles out-of-state to be in a tournament. Unless I have the results, I have nothing to show to the other members of my club. I might as well have not fenced last weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gillaspy View Post
    I might as well have not fenced last weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gillaspy View Post
    I drove over 200 miles out-of-state to be in a tournament. Unless I have the results, I have nothing to show to the other members of my club. I might as well have not fenced last weekend.
    Hahaha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oiuyt View Post
    For one thing because a number of the software packages don't yet talk to FRED, the way FT does. I know this is an active area of development, but it's not yet completed. Run an event in, say, enguarde, and you have lots of pretty, postable results. But nothing that you can give to FRED without a bunch of additional hand entry. So sometimes it gets posted elsewhere and FRED never finds out.
    Perhaps a short term solution while waiting for the programs to be modified for output to FRED format, or FRED to import whatever format the program spits out, it might help to have the ability of a tournament listed for registration on FRED that used a program that doesn't allow posting results back to FRED to post a link to where the results were posted.

    So, for example, if I ran my tournament with enguarde, and posted the nice results on my club/division/section/etc Web site, I could post a link to this "off-FRED" site, tied to results link for my tournament that resides on FRED.

    Of course, this wouldn't allow all the other nifty search capabilities that FRED offers, like finding out how the competition you face next week fenced in the past at other tournaments posted on FRED like: Who is this Inq guy--is he an Arizona sabre-slinger, coming to the Cherry Blossom, or just some slacker from some cow-town out west?
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    Senior Member parrythis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gillaspy View Post
    I drove over 200 miles out-of-state to be in a tournament. Unless I have the results, I have nothing to show to the other members of my club. I might as well have not fenced last weekend.
    So, it appears that the issue is not so much that the results are not on askfred, or that any given organizer's software is incompatible with askfred. It appears that what you are interested in is having the results published in some shape or form in a way that is tangible to you. It doesn't even sound like you necessarily need all the nitty-gritty detail of how every pool bout went and might be satisfied with just the overall finish positions. Yes?

    I suggest you e-mail the organizers and politely ask when and how they will be publishing the results of their tournament. Give them a few days, but if they do not respond, e-mail them again. If they continue to drag their feet, start cc'ing the leaders of their club/organization with your request.

    If they fail to respond, point out that you would like to bring friends to their next tournament but are reluctant to do so if they cannot do a complete job. In other words, dangle a financial carrot in front of them. If they still don't respond, vote with your feet and take your business (and your $$$) elsewhere. It will be their loss because others will be doing the same.
    One test is worth a thousand opinions.
    I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was. - Toby Keith
    Living life without taking the occasional risk is like lemon-pepper chicken without the lemon-peper. It's just chicken.

  20. #20
    Senior Member qatet's Avatar
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    I have posted all the tournaments that my club hosts, but sometimes it does take time for results to go up. Do you really want a list of reasons why the results take some time to get put up there? Here goes.

    - I didn't run the tournament and the person who did run it sent the results to the division without giving them to me.

    - The tournament was run on paper using a format that doesn't fit with FencingTime. I will often try to figure out a way to make this fit anyways, since I think that it is very valuable to have the results of the actual pool bouts to later reference. That means that I need to spend a certain amount of time messing around with FT to try to make it work. You may notice that some Philadelphia Division tournaments have crazy things like 15-touch pools with the pool results listed in the "More Info" page, and various place-holders in the actual results. Took a while to figure out a way to make things work in FT and to create a legible poolsheet on the "More Info" page.

    - I haven't been near the internet in several days (often coincides with me not running the tournament, since most of you on this site know how much time I spend on the internet) (Hey - at least I'm not Inq) and thus haven't been able to get things into Fred.

    - Various other issues with FT have also resulted in tournaments being run on paper and caused delays in inputting results.

    Also? Really? I work two jobs, as do many of the people who run events in my experience. I do my best to get things up there, but sometimes it doesn't happen. I would guess that my club is not alone in having one person as the point-man on Fred, while other people may run the tournaments. This means that the results have to get from the person who was running the event to the person who puts things online.

    Want to know how to slow down the process of getting the results up there? Email me repeatedly about the fact that they're not posted. By the time I got back from NAC E (guess what - I wasn't running tournaments at home while I was several states away) some people had emailed me two and three time about results from a tournament on Sunday.

    I know that it seems like a very simple task - just hit a couple buttons and the tournament is online. Usually it is, and those results get posted quickly. Sometimes it isn't. Such is life. (And think twice before sending b1tchy emails to the organizer! You might slow down the process!)

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