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4qtrs · 03-24-2007, 10:35 AM

Another thread reminded me of the request earlier in the season for ideas on changing the way the USFA runs tournaments. Does anyone know what became of the recommendations?

KD5MDK · 03-24-2007, 11:24 AM

If the Board of Directors ever meets again, they might receive a report.

teacup · 03-24-2007, 11:40 AM

Does anyone know who is on the committee? It doesn't list members of the tournament task force committee on the website just members of the tournament committee.

The reason I am asking is because in the several local community development and educational committees I have been involved in there have been representatives from different areas in order to get opinions from groups with different viewpoints.

Therefore a fencing tournament task force should have representatives from the bout committee, armourers, coaches, referees, parents, USFA staff, fencers, all from different weapons, ages, abilities and various locations, etc.

I wonder if this was done.

fencerbill · 03-24-2007, 11:42 AM

It can be done better. Ask fencers who have been in tournaments where people from the New England Division have worked the computers. Which is why they have been hired to work tournaments as far away as New Jersey.

KD5MDK · 03-24-2007, 12:01 PM

Are you suggesting the people who run New England tournaments are better than the people who run National ones? Because in many cases they are the same, and in the others that spring to mind I have no objections on the competence of the USFA computer operators etc.

MyrddinsPrecint · 03-24-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Are you suggesting the people who run New England tournaments are better than the people who run National ones? Because in many cases they are the same, and in the others that spring to mind I have no objections on the competence of the USFA computer operators etc.

The issue is NEVER plugging things into computers. The trained money you take away from directing epee can plug in the info. While it's better to have someone who will notice the problems themselves AND be able to fix them (pools somehow came out wrong, that person's name has to have at least one vowel somewhere, oh dear, the power came out of the laptop!), but really, it's not a very difficult skill.

The bit that is MUCH HARDER and is a much rarer skill is the managing. The Head Ref might know the strengths and weaknesses of every single ref in the room and have them perfectly assigned...... But if there is one too many men's epee pools, so it gets flighted, but you still don't have enough strips for women's foil............ It's going to be a VERY long day. Sometimes there's nothing you can do. Sometimes there is.

Since my national competition experience is not terribly thorough, who are you thinking of from New England who run National ones? (I'm not counting FOCs as head refs, are you?)

Peach · 03-24-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacup

Does anyone know who is on the committee? . . . a fencing tournament task force should have representatives from the bout committee, armourers, coaches, referees, parents, USFA staff, fencers, all from different weapons, ages, abilities and various locations, etc.

Yup. Bout committee, armourers, coaches, referees, parents, USFA staff, fencers, and different weapons, ages, abilities and locations are represented on the task force committee. I'm one of the members (I'm a sort of portmanteau member, unlike most of them--I'm a coach/referee/parent/fencer/sabre/veteran/East Coast) A handful of us got together in one room in November, which took some pretty strenuous travel.

fencerbill · 03-24-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Are you suggesting the people who run New England tournaments are better than the people who run National ones? Because in many cases they are the same, and in the others that spring to mind I have no objections on the competence of the USFA computer operators etc.

They certainly are faster. I am not saying that the people at NACs are not competent, things just go SLOWLY. The New England people run Pomme de Terre events with up to 100 entrants and the delays before paperwork is posted is significantly faster. There is an imponderable mindset at NACs that just s l o w s t h i n g s d o w n. I see an analogy at NASA which is why the Chinese will be next on the moon.

4qtrs · 03-24-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peach

A handful of us got together in one room in November, which took some pretty strenuous travel.

Peach, were the new formats dicussed at the Nov. meeting?

Allen Evans · 03-24-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencerbill

They certainly are faster. I am not saying that the people at NACs are not competent, things just go SLOWLY. The New England people run Pomme de Terre events with up to 100 entrants and the delays before paperwork is posted is significantly faster. There is an imponderable mindset at NACs that just s l o w s t h i n g s d o w n. I see an analogy at NASA which is why the Chinese will be next on the moon.

I think you should give this statement some thought. Even if there are one hundred entries (and I assume you mean per event and not entries total) at the Pomme de Terre in even half of the events, does this really compare in size to a NAC?

The people running the NAC's don't get paid by the hour, they are interested in getting out of the venue as fast as the fencers (or faster, since going home early means they did their job -- as opposed to a fencer going home early). At the same time, they don't have any control over all the things that crop up at an event: the fencers and coaches who demand that seeding be checked, errors in score sheets that require referees and fencers to be tracked down, all the bridges that have to be crossed before the next step in an event can take place.

Allen

Allen Evans · 03-24-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacup

The reason I am asking is because in the several local community development and educational committees I have been involved in there have been representatives from different areas in order to get opinions from groups with different viewpoints.

Therefore a fencing tournament task force should have representatives from the bout committee, armourers, coaches, referees, parents, USFA staff, fencers, all from different weapons, ages, abilities and various locations, etc.

I wonder if this was done.

There was also considerable time for public comment and input. I sent in a fairly lengthly comment on some of the ideas being proposed. I understand others did as well.

Allen

KD5MDK · 03-24-2007, 05:23 PM

It would be interesting to see some of the feedback posted, with permission, or something. Or minutes of a meeting, or other things for the rest of us to go on.

teacup · 03-24-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peach

Yup. Bout committee, armourers, coaches, referees, parents, USFA staff, fencers, and different weapons, ages, abilities and locations are represented on the task force committee. I'm one of the members (I'm a sort of portmanteau member, unlike most of them--I'm a coach/referee/parent/fencer/sabre/veteran/East Coast) A handful of us got together in one room in November, which took some pretty strenuous travel.

That's good. I am glad that the committee is seeking input for new people especially due to the rapid growth of the sport over the last few years.

Were minutes taken at the meeting that could possibly be published?

Peach · 03-24-2007, 09:14 PM

teacup - I think the notes from the meeting will be part of the report to the Board of Directors, though I mght be wrong.

4qtrs - new formats? Could you be specific? We discussed all kinds of possible formats over the two days of the meeting.

fencerbill · 03-24-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

I think you should give this statement some thought. Even if there are one hundred entries (and I assume you mean per event and not entries total) at the Pomme de Terre in even half of the events, does this really compare in size to a NAC?

558 individual and 52 team entries in 2 days. 40 strips, or is it 50? Pretty much over by 5 PM each day.

4qtrs · 03-24-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peach

4qtrs - new formats? Could you be specific? We discussed all kinds of possible formats over the two days of the meeting.

I was wondering if there was a path that the committee preferred over others. For instance, the European schedule vs. elite only fencing.

Frankly, I read over the props very quickly so I don't know the full detail.

MyrddinsPrecint · 03-25-2007, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencerbill

558 individual and 52 team entries in 2 days. 40 strips, or is it 50? Pretty much over by 5 PM each day.

Hrm, the individual number sounds a little low to me. I'd check, but NEUSFAs servers are undergoing maintenance. That could fairly easily be the number of total people involved in individual events, but many people are in the unrated event one day and the open the next--- Anyone else wager a guess before the servers go back up?

Every year, the Big One at Smith happens with a suprisingly small amount of planning/worrying/thought. It just kind of works. (Mainly due to Wayne, while I've been here.... Except this past year, which I would prefer to not repeat....) . But there's a bit of futzing over it all day. By the end of the day, I'm crazy frazzled, and it's a one day event. Problems come up, and they get dealt with, while you're dealing with the last three problems, and someone's standing in front of you waiting to get your attention. And The Big One is considered a fairly well run event as these things go. Even this year. (hah!)

At Pomme? Things have turned into a well oiled machine. People know what their assignment is by now. There's no panic, no hysteria, it just all gets done.

That, to me, is the difference between an event that's run effectively and an event that's run well. It's hard, but not impossible, to run an event that gets done before dinner. It's near impossible to make it look easy.

fencerbill · 03-25-2007, 12:05 PM

I did get the 2006 numbers from the web site. Results listing from 12 individual and all 5 team events (no WST).

teacup · 03-25-2007, 02:10 PM

Once the tournament committee's report has been presented it would be nice if the fencing community was given a chance to submit feedback on their proposals before being voted on and implemented.

Soberin · 03-25-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacup

Once the tournament committee's report has been presented it would be nice if the fencing community was given a chance to submit feedback on their proposals before being voted on and implemented.

Have you emailed Kalle with that suggestion?