Nickel allergies and lamés?

[Sinestra]

Hey all, back again with yet more questions about equipment.

This time, the order of the day is lamés. I've been using a France Lame lamé for about six months now, and it's taken quite a bit of abuse (practice three or four nights a week, two or three hours at a time, for the better part of those six months plus tournaments) and still seems to be holding up pretty well. However, I've had it recommended to me that I get a second lamé specifically for tournament use, and as I'm planning on doing quite a bit of competition in the near future, I think that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Also, some of the metal threads on the front of the lamé seem to be worn through, though there are no dead spots yet, I'm not sure if that's a sign that I might be expecting them in the near future or not.
Thing is, though, as I've been fencing with this particular lamé, whenever I've had a really intense day and sweated a lot, I've noticed that I tend to end up with a rather substantial rash on the back of my neck where the lame extends partway past the neck of the jacket. I already know I have nickel allergies--it stopped me wearing watches with metal bands a long time ago--and I know that nickel is frequently included in lamé material, so I figure that may have something to do with it.
Anyone know if I'm right on this particular case? I know that France Lame isn't really around anymore, but I figure someone other than myself must still use some of their stuff or have some vague idea what's going on.

The other question is, if I want to try and avoid that kind of skin irritation in the future, what sorts of lamés are decent and don't contain nickel? It's been rather difficult to tell which do and which don't, so I'd appreciate any advice.
(I've also recently gotten an FIE jacket, also France Lame, really cheap, and the collar extends up further than the one on my previous jacket, so I'm thinking that might help somewhat. Haven't had much of a chance to try it yet, though, so who knows.)

Thanks again!

[yeoldearmourer]

Have you look into the infinty lame that is made of non metellic mat. Several vendrs sell it. Or Triplleti have a non mentellic one as well

[CvilleFencer]

I would recommend the Infinity lame for saber but it does not hold up as well for foil in my experiance. The LP and TCA Lightweight lames are very nice and have solid track records. I have had my LP for a couple of years and I treat it very, very badly. Like wad it up wet and shove it in a small pocket of my bag when I am done with it kind of bad but I have zero problems with it. I don't care for the OD sort of color of the TCA one but they seem very durable as well and I think a little bit cheaper. If you are hard to size the TCA one will get custom cut quicker and easier than most others however. For stitching, fitting and overall fit and finish I think LP is the best on the market however.

Newer on the market but holding up well from the reviews I have gotten in is the Absolute lightweight lame. The lightest and most breathable of them all and the cheapest, but the least proven. Might definitely be worth taking a look at though.

[brtech]

I thought most of the ultralight's were nickel based.

The Uhlman/Allstar and most of the clones of it are stainless steel

I'm not really sure, but I think the Infinity is nickel based.

[CvilleFencer]

I thought most of the ultralight's were nickel based.

I am not sure about the TCA ones, but the LP ones are silver based. IIRC the Infinity ones are something other than nickel/stainless as well but I could not swear to it and I seem to have lost my link to the vendor that supplies their material. I have not really torn apart one of the Absolute/BG ones yet so I can't comment on those.

The Uhlman/Allstar and most of the clones of it are stainless steel

Run of the mill INOX Stainless Steal has nickel, hence the problem.

[UKExPat]

I've tried the BG lightweight lame, I didn't even walk out of the store with it. AF's is pretty cool, it's like a windbreaker, I've had it six months no issues, it's now my favourite over my infinity.

Alec

Edit: also, after taking apart the little patch I got with mine, I think it's silver thread wrapped around the actual thread.

[keith]

Run of the mill INOX Stainless Steel has nickel, hence the problem.

which is also an issue with 'silver' thread - I doubt it is pure silver but an alloy with copper and or nickel.

Only way of finding out is from the manufacturers. Or find someone with a strong nickel allergy and give them a good rub down with the lame in question.

[CvilleFencer]

which is also an issue with 'silver' thread - I doubt it is pure silver but an alloy with copper and or nickel.

Only way of finding out is from the manufacturers. Or find someone with a strong nickel allergy and give them a good rub down with the lame in question.

Yeah, and if it were just "silver thread" in place of stainless on the ultra lights I would quickly concede the point. However, process of making an ultra light lame is a bit more complicated than "run some silver threads through a t-shirt..." although considering how light they are, I could understand the confusion!

Short version as I understand it is that there are conductive single filament polymer strands that have been impregnated/bonded with just enough silver to give them some conductivity woven throughout the jacket. As such, the nickel content would be very low compared to a standard lame. Also with the LP lames at least, the lining is full and is stitched over on any part that could come in contact with the skin during normal wear. So that even if someone were very sensitive, unless they spent a lot of time stroking their chest with their off hand in between bouts, they would be fine.

[DJ Apostrophe]

which is also an issue with 'silver' thread - I doubt it is pure silver but an alloy with copper and or nickel.

Only way of finding out is from the manufacturers. Or find someone with a strong nickel allergy and give them a good rub down with the lame in question.

I could shoot it with one of my analyzers from work: http://www.innovxsys.com and tell you the elemental composition of it.

IIRC, the infinities had Nickel in them, and that is why Jeff couldn't get them CE approved, and couldn't export them to Europe.

-w

[CvilleFencer]

I could shoot it with one of my analyzers from work: http://www.innovxsys.com and tell you the elemental composition of it.

Hey, that would be pretty awesome, especially if you could find an INOX one to compare it to for a baseline. It would be good to grab a TCA one as well.

IIRC, the infinities had Nickel in them, and that is why Jeff couldn't get them CE approved, and couldn't export them to Europe.

-w

Now that you mention that I remember hearing something along those lines. Of course I sort of remember hearing a lot of things about why they could not be exported to Europe up to and including Jeff did not include a large enough bribe with his paperwork... However, that was the most credible of the rumors I had heard, I had just completely forgotten about it until you mentioned it. I thought he had switched suppliers though and the newer ones were kosher. I will have to give them a call now that my curiosity is up...

[keith]

Short version as I understand it is that there are conductive single filament polymer strands that have been impregnated/bonded with just enough silver to give them some conductivity woven throughout the jacket. As such, the nickel content would be very low compared to a standard lame. Also with the LP lames at least, the lining is full and is stitched over on any part that could come in contact with the skin during normal wear. So that even if someone were very sensitive, unless they spent a lot of time stroking their chest with their off hand in between bouts, they would be fine.

So two issues; one is nickel content the second is the ability of the nickel to get out of the alloy - surgical steel contains nickel but does not cause allergic reactions because the nickel does not get released from the alloy. Cheap nickel plated jewelry on the other hand.......

So allow me to rephrase more precisely; it does not matter whether it looks bronzey, silvery or steely it probably has nickel in it. However, as far as allergies go, it does not matter so much how much nickel it contains but how much nickel it leaches out when all sweaty.

So depending on the grade of steel used to make the lames the INOX ones may in fact be the best choice for someone with nickel allergies.

Need to rub the sweaty lames down and use one of those fancy analyzers on what comes off.

[yeoldearmourer]

The Mexican women foil team at one the lames were made with gold thead, Boy were they nice to check zero ohm. The head of the Mexican Fed was also on the NAT team. Husband owned a glod mine