Best book of the 20th century?

[Rabid Monk]

I tried this on a different forum, and it was a very popular thread.

So I'm trying it here, too.

The object is to post what you think if the best book(s) of the 20th century (1900-1999).
The book must have been written in this time frame.

I'm going to ask you to limit yourselves to a maximum of 5 books, or else things get pretty long. The books can be for any age group, and any genre.
Feel free to repeat books others have listed.
Ultimately, I'd like to be able to create a poll of the top suggestions, and see what us fencers view as the most influential book of the last 100 years.

Please include the title, author, and first date published, in the following format:

Author, Title, Date


For example (this book was written before 1900, it does not count, but it is an example of a title most people are familiar with):

Alexander Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo, 1844-1845.

[fences_like_a_lemur]

Steve Pressfield, Gates of Fire, 1998

Go Spartans!

<- My Thermopylae party hat!

[Inquartata]

Books have been written in the 20th century?!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Ok, this is actually FOUR books...but it could be considered one really, really big book....

Hyperion Cantos
Hyperion (1989) - Hugo Award 1990, Locus Award 1990 (Science Fiction)
The Fall of Hyperion (1990)
Endymion (1996)
The Rise of Endymion (1997)

all by Dan Simmons

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Ok, this is actually FOUR books...but it could be considered one really, really big book....

Hyperion Cantos
Hyperion (1989) - Hugo Award 1990, Locus Award 1990 (Science Fiction)
The Fall of Hyperion (1990)
Endymion (1996)
The Rise of Endymion (1997)

all by Dan Simmons

I don't know if you could possible call it THE book[s] of the 20th century but it is a cracking read.

Plenty of much better books out there.

Depends on how you define best.

[jeff]

This comes up once in a while. Academician's answer is Ulysses but you can never find anyone who's read the whole thing through.

Some links:

http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlib...estnovels.html (I think the Reader's List was subjected to ballot-stuffing by Ayn Rand and L. Ron. Hubbard fans - that's a pretty batty list)

http://www.wesselenyi.com/top100books.htm (Waterstone's poll. I think this the most representative of non-academician tastes.)

Looking at the standard lists, I think Joyce deservces his reputation, especially for Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, and Ulysses due to its influence. I think Fitzgerald and Lawrence overrated, and Lolita not as good as Nabokov's short stories, but the most notorious.

There was a big fuss when the Waterstone poll had The Lord of the Rings as Number 1, but that's my vote.

[Inquartata]

Wow!

Better than Faulkner, Hemingway or Shaw? Better than Steinbeck, Nabokov or Salinger? Better than Updike, Williams, Orwell, Kafka, Proust, Conrad, Forster or Chekhov?

Guess I'd better go read those! I had no idea what I was missing...

[jeff]

As pure literature no way, but as sweeping expanse of an imagined world, yes.

Ing, you certainly list the standard greats Faulkner, Hemingway or Shaw? Better than Steinbeck, Nabokov or Salinger? Better than Updike, Williams, Orwell, Kafka, Proust, Conrad, Forster or Chekhov?

I find Hemingway annoying and affected. Maybe that's late 20th century perspective or my distaste for his personality. Updike never appealed to me with his WASP suburban adultery stories. Is that William Carlos Williams or a different one? Orwell and Kafka have great ideas, but I'm not keen on their prose. Tried to get through Catcher in the Rye but it made no impression on me - I found the protagonist annoying. Shaw, I think better for witticisms than his writing (like Dorothy Parker). Conrad and Forster I much like, Chekhov only in small doses. Nabokov is glorious - his prose shimmers. I started on Proust, but gosh, it's a slow slog.

I prefer Pynchon (esp. Gravity's Rainbow, a tour-de-force) to most of those listed. I wonder if Stephenson will make future lists due to Cryptonomicon or the Baroque Cycle.

[Inquartata]

I had Tennessee Williams in mind, actually.

As for "sweeping expanse of an imagined world"....better than Heinlein? Asimov? Clark? Silverberg? Bradbury? Howard? Burroughs? Haggard? Eddison? Farmer? Herbert? Zelazny? Tolkien? Cabell? Baum? Myers? Peake?


So basically the same reaction.

[jeff]

So many Williamses, so little time... (did we stipulate only prose? Hm, we didn't even stipulate that it must be fiction!)

You do list more of my heroes. I think Tolkien beats the other fantasists (if that's a word) for a richly imagined world with a stirring sense of magic and drama, hence he's my #1 pick. Shippey's book about Tolkien makes a good case (IMO) for that.

Off-the-cuff responses: Asimov a great writer and wit, but sometimes clunky prose and alas cardboard characters. Clarke I enjoy more. Zelazny: outstanding and underrated: in the 'imagined world' category, his Amber series is excellent, and Lord of Light as well (good fencing scene bonus!). I was a big Heinlein fan, esp Moon is a Harsh Mistress. but his politics and worldview, and weaker late books lower him in my estimate (probably the best juvenile SF author, tho). Bonus: more fencing scenes (FWIW, he used Italian grip, as did his niece, who was an English teacher of mine in HS!)

I like Peake, Haggard, and Cabell's imagination, but frequently not their prose and storyline. Herbert's Dune was great - I adored it as a teen - but the rest of the series was a disappointment. Some of Silverberg is outstanding. Less keen on Farmer and Cabell. Which Myers?

Another wonderful writer, since we're focusing on the SF/fantasy works: Ursula LeGuin. The Wizard of Earthsea series is written in deceptively simple, unadorned style, but conveys better than almost all the others the 'sense of wonder' that a fantasized, magic world should produce. A peer with Tolkien, IMO, despite the dramatically different style.

Inq, your opinions/evaluations? (We're clearly in 'de gustibus' terrritory, but interesting nonetheless)

[Rabid Monk]

I don't care what they think.
I want to know what you lot think.

The Hyperion Cantos were long, but interesting. But oh-so-very-long. And you may count series as one story, for that is what they are.

Anyway, my pics, to get this thread back on topic:

George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four, 1949
Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land, 1961
C. S. Lewis, Chronicles of Narnia (7 books), 1949-1956
J. R. R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings (3 books), 1954-1955

[Inquartata]

John Myers Myers.

And I did forget Le Guin.

Farmer has a book called "Tarzan Alive" which is so intricate and convincing that it was shelved in the "Biography" section in my local library back in the 70s. Then there's the "Riverworld" series.

Cabell is possibly my favorite author, just for the dense prose, the vocabulary and the wit...

[Dave]

The question did say books, not just novels. It also asked for the best and most influential, two very different things, so

Influential

Einstein, Albert. Relativity: The Special and General Theory. 1917 (his work on quantum mechanics was more important but I can't find a decent reference, so maybe "Dirac, The Principles of Quantum Mechanics 1930" instead)

Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. 1925-26

Mao, ??, Little Red Book. 1964

Kinsey, Robert. Kinsey Reports. 1948, 1953

Orwell, George. 1984, 1949.

I am sure that there are other, more worthy candidates, but these are the first ones that come to mind.


My opinions on the "best" book have varied enormously through my life, I shall have to think some more about it.

[OROD]

Damn, I feel so hopelessly uncultured reading this thread.

Originally Posted by jeff

...Zelazny: outstanding and underrated: in the 'imagined world' category, his Amber series is excellent, and Lord of Light as well (good fencing scene bonus!).

Agreed, Zelazny is great! Loved the Amber series and Lord of Light is perhaps my favorite book. I also really enjoyed most of what I read from Larry Niven... even more than the other big writers like Heinlein, Asimov, Clark, Bradbury... Niven always holds my interest right to the end of the book.

Another one I really like (and not mentioned so far) is James Hogan. Check out Inherit the Stars if you're not familiar with him.

.

[passata_sotto]

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957
Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead, 1943
George Orwell, Animal Farm, 1945
Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451, 1953
Hemingway, The Old Man and The Sea,1952

If I could have had more than five, I would put in at least one Faulkner book as well - probably The Reivers...

[MessiahFencing]

Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. 1925-26

Mao, Zedong, Little Red Book. 1964

Orwell, George. Animal Farm. 1945

Orwell, George. 1984, 1949.

[academe]

Hunger, Mysteries, and Pan all by Knut Hamsun

If you must choose, choose Hunger.

Also, for short stories, anything by Borges.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by jeff

Tried to get through Catcher in the Rye but it made no impression on me - I found the protagonist annoying.

We read literature for the emotions it stirs and the insights into humanity. Annoyance is an emotion, after all.

I found Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant incredibly annoying. By halfway through the first book I was gritting my teeth to bite back a scream of frustrated hatred every time he said "I'm a leper!" to someone. Gah. But the books were still well worth reading, antihero to the contrary notwithstanding.

I doubt that anyone has ever really liked Holden Caulfield. No one likes Hitler, either, but his was still a fascinating story...


I hesitate even to try to pick a few books as "best" when the category is--everything written in the last century!

[jeff]

I had successfully blocked the memory of Thomas Covenant (till now). Yes, that was on the extremely annoying side. Equivalent of nails on a blackboard (and I didn't find the rest of the books compelling enough to keep on).

We could have a threadjack for annoying books, or Worst Of The Century. Which reminds me of Sword of Shannara, which I seem to recall blatantly recycled every plot element from LOTR, clumsily. Got naive young 'must become a hero' chap? Check. A Dark Lord. Check. Dark Riders? Yup, just rename 'em. 3 elven magic thingies? You betcha. Passage through a dark cavern. Got it. Council of Good guy races to figure out what to do? Uh huh. And so on. Bleh!

[Inquartata]

Yes, that one was pretty awful. I had almost forgotten about it. Until now. Bleah, indeed.

My nominee would be "The Door Into Fire" by Diane Duane. No, madam, I do NOT like having a political view forced down my---er, wait, let me rephrase that...

The more I read of good fantasy the less tolerance I have for the "it's mediocre but there's a market for it" output. Alas, it's the latter who are the most prolific. Trilogies of trilogies, 800 pages per volume, ack!