Serious armorers fencers or not?

[JMcC]

How do the ranks of serious armorers* break down percentage-wise in terms of:
1. Currently active fencers
2. Former fencers
3. Never really fencers, just like the tools and technology

*Like those good folks at the weapons check tables at national events; as opposed to those who just maintain their own equipment and occasionally help out a friend or teammate.

[Purple Fencer]

I'm a former three-weapon fencer, myself...

[fencerbill]

Make this a poll.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Make this a poll.

it'll be flawed!!

[fatfencer]

if you define serious armorers as those who have elaborate test kits ala Dan DeChaine then that counts me out. But since I'm the only dumba@@ who volunteers to fix my clubs broken bodywires(Uhlmann shi@) and wire blades for others in the club then yes I'm a serious armorer.

My coach who is primarily sabre is used to Uhlmann. the epee coach at our club is used to uhlmann. uhlmann requires a lot of maintenance. chinese copies of uhlmann require even more maintenance.

German overengineering. When Sam gets done with his body cords they will be the shi@.

FF

PS: I count myself as a serious armorer because I have more foils than my club and I have 700 ft of spaghetti tubing courtesy of Ye Olde Armorers.
I bought 8 or nine spools of their tubing at Nationals. I have more parts than most Matrix props..... :-p)

[SJCFU#2]

I would say that most armorers were once active fencers - they started armoring out of necessity. As they got more involved with armoring (and older) it became more difficult to actively compete, although by no means impossible (look at Bill).

Alex Latzco would probably be the exception. His parents were both fencers and when he was little they would leave him in the care of the armorers (foolish people). As soon as he was old enough they put him to work so he pretty much grew up being an armorer (and was rather proud to proclaim that he was not a fencer).

[brtech]

Although I have tried fencing, I never pursued it seriously. I got into armoring when I was at a local tournament with my kids, who do fence, and there was a guy with 3 tool boxes full of tools. I went over and asked him what he was doing, and he said "Sit down and I'll show you". That was it. I was hooked.

Now I have the tool boxes.

It's a good way for me to participate in something my kids love, gives me more time with them. Now that I'm in, I'll be here way past the time when the kids are home (last one leaves the next a year from September).

[remise]

My story is similar to brtech's. I used to fence for fun at my club, but I never competed. My kids fenced, and were very adept at breaking whatever weapon they touched. (Usually it was a very old, used weapon or a very cheap weapon).

I came to a NAC and asked the same question as brtech did to the armorers behind the table and got the same response. I ended up staying with them the entire day. For about 2 years, I hung out at every armorer's table I could when my kids competed.

Recently, I decided to try fencing again, albeit a bit more seriously....competition. I can absolutely say that it is an entirely different thing to build a weapon up from scratch versus using it out on the strip. At one local tournament, a fencer from another state recognized me and said,"I know you! You're an armorer. So you're going to actually try using the stuff you build, huh? Well, I'm glad you're here. That way, if anything of mine breaks, I know you can fix it...."

Well, after the pools were done, everyone in my pool had me looking at their bodycord or weapon or whatever, but I didn't care because it was a lot of fun. To compete, I mean. AND, to armor.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

This is a GREAT THREAD!

I am a sometimes serious fencer who LOVES armoring but has never had formal training. In college, I remember building weapons in the backseat of the car on the way to tournaments (probably why I prefer super glue for wires over any of the cements they sell!)

When I was elected club president, suddenly I found myself taking 20 or 30 weapons back to my dorm room the night before tournaments.

Now, I RELISH the time I get to spend in my basement armoring before competitions. I've got the tools (including acetone bath and big, expensive vise), and I will spend a couple of hours with my weapons and a few beers (pre-tourney carbs!).

I hope to someday get real training, and be more of an armourer when my left knee and ankle finally give out for good. I think I will be good at it. For some reason, it seems MY weapons are the ones which never seem to get those pesky white lights that many others do. Must be the beer.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old

This is a GREAT THREAD!

I am a sometimes serious fencer who LOVES armoring but has never had formal training. In college, I remember building weapons in the backseat of the car on the way to tournaments (probably why I prefer super glue for wires over any of the cements they sell!)

When I was elected club president, suddenly I found myself taking 20 or 30 weapons back to my dorm room the night before tournaments.

Now, I RELISH the time I get to spend in my basement armoring before competitions. I've got the tools (including acetone bath and big, expensive vise), and I will spend a couple of hours with my weapons and a few beers (pre-tourney carbs!).

I hope to someday get real training, and be more of an armourer when my left knee and ankle finally give out for good. I think I will be good at it. For some reason, it seems MY weapons are the ones which never seem to get those pesky white lights that many others do. Must be the beer.

Best training I ever got was simple experience with my weapons...Rudy Volkman's book was also a great help (although the sabre section was out of date).

My major advantage is having access to Donald Clinton and Carl Oberg in a fairly regular basis.

Armorers College was great....but for me it merely fine tuned a lot of knowledge I already had. You really can't lears all the tricks in a week.

[erooMynohtnA]

I know a serious fencer who is also a serious armorer. Not like he just fixes stuff, he works at NACs and things like that.

I fix stuff for my club. I am good at being an armorer but I wouldn't call myself an armorer because I'm not the one behind the desk checking if things meet requirements.

[Mergs]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Armorers College was great....but for me it merely fine tuned a lot of knowledge I already had. You really can't lears all the tricks in a week.

Ah, but you learned a damn sight more that just a few tricks during that week. To include some great punchlines!

[brtech]

We really need two terms, one for the person that builds. diagnoses and repairs personal equipment, and one for the person who works tournaments, checking that equipment meets the rules, setting up scoring equipment, and helping directors on the strip with technical issues.

It's common to be reasonably skilled at both, but there are plenty of people who are really better at one or the other. As you might expect, there are some who work better with fencers, directors and coaches, and some who work better with foils and epees and sabers who don't talk back.

Perhaps "armorer" and "tournament armorer". The word "Technician" is used at tournaments ("Technician to Strip 12", but really "Technician" is the person who deals with the scoring machines.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Mergs

Ah, but you learned a damn sight more that just a few tricks during that week. To include some great punchlines!

True....true...as Dan says...there are no secrets to armory, just those who know more tricks..

[Beowulfman6]

It depends how define "serious armorer." I do all of the armory for my college club, and consider myself proficient at doing all which that job requires- but I wouldn't work a tournamnt becouse if I'm going to one I intend to be fencing in it. Plus, those guys armoring at the big events (usualy) have skills far beyond those of the typical club armorer. I would say that I am a fencer first and an armorer secondly- I like doing it, but I realy only do it by necessity (and becouse I like to be self sufficient).

[JMcC]

Originally Posted by Beowulfman6

It depends how define "serious armorer."

Thought I had; "*Like those good folks at the weapons check tables at national events".

[Morion]

I'm not sure I qualify as "serious" in either category. Dolly Donovan is the official armorer for our club but she has gotten excessivly busy with work over the last couple of years so she mostly just maintains the reels and boxes while I get to repair all of the weapons and body cords (i.e. the simple stuff). I also get to hang out with Dan DeChaine once a year at the Phoenix Cup.

I do fence regularly but tend to get decimated if I venture beyond the club level. I guess I am fencings equivalent of a Golf Duffer. I fence because I enjoy it, not because I'm good at it.

[Wink0192]

I got to be the armourer because I was the only one on my college team that owned a tool box. I was maybe an average fencer and did a lot of score box repair, design and selling of test equipment. Drifted into the SCA for a while and did period fencing. Now my boys are in fencing and I am looking to design more test equipment and fix boxes. I have too much "Target area" to fence anymore.

[Jvanhousen]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

if you define serious armorers as those who have elaborate test kits ala Dan DeChaine then that counts me out.

Speaking of Dan, what's his fencing background?
When I was in college, I lived near Dan and the small epee club he ran at General Dynamics, his place of work. I fenced with them for a year or so and watched Dan give many epee lessons, which at the time to my beginners eye and now in retrospect, I remember him as being very competent. Occasionally he would join us on the strip and fenced in a very clean and quick style w/ excellent footwork.
So where did he learn, and at what level did he compete?

[yeoldearmourer]

I do know that Dan was fencing foil in Mexico and the blade break and went though his shoulder. Joe Brynes fence epee in colleage believe NYU. Ted Li to the best of my knowledge as never fence. Myself before my legs went I was a A rated sabre fence with a C in epee and foil.That was back in the day if you had a A rating in one weapon they gave you C in the others