Program differences: Coaches College & USFCA ?

[jfarmer]

Hoping to not start a religious war here, but I wanted to open a discussion about the differences between the USFA's Coaches College program of certification and the USFCA program.

I'm studying to prepare to take the USFCA written exam with plans to take the practical exam this fall. This fits my schedule (& budget) better than going to Colorado Springs every summer for the next many years.

What are seen as the strong points of each program? Is it worthwhile to pursue both?

Thanks
John Farmer
Coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club

[Allen Evans]

The USFCA has no program to train coaches. It's been pointed out to me that the role of the USFCA is not to train coaches, but to certify them once they have been trained.

The USFCA does run a rudimentary mentor program, but I'm not sure how active it is. Wendell Kubik and Vinnie Bradford -- USFCA members and officers (past and present) -- run the Pan American Fencing Academy in Texas, and put on weekend seminars on coaching (4-5 a year). This is something that they are doing on their own and is not an officially "certified" USFCA training program.

The USFA Coaches College does have a progression of courses to train coaches, but, of course, cannot certify anyone as a fencing Moniteur, Prevot, or Master. I found that the work I did at the USFA College prepared me pretty well for my USFCA Prevot exam, though I spent about two months working with two other amateur coaches outside of the Coaches College program before I took the USFCA test (all three of us passed). I enjoyed the immersion approach to fencing, and the climate of being at the OTC.

I think that the USFA Coaches College could be improved. However, based on the campers I see in the Level One courses, Coaches College is filling a very valuable role in training fencing coaches in the United States. I recommend that even if you have been fencing for a number of years, that starting at Level 1 or Level 2 can be a very eye opening experience unless you've worked with very good coaches in the past, and your teaching skills are very solid. I have always gotten a lot out of all the levels of Coaches College that I've taken (up to Level 4), but then, I have a unique approach to the coursework.

Is it worthwhile to pursue both? Well, as "both" don't exist, the question could be boiled down to: "Is it worthwhile to be certified through the USFCA?"

I think that the answer to this question is personal. I think it's important that if you are a member of a profession, that you be a member of the professional organization for that profession. I will also say, however, as I have said in other threads, I have gotten more milage by being a "Fencing Expert" on Fencing.net (what ever that means) than I ever have by being a Prevot in the USFCA. No institutuion has ever asked about my credentials. Some had no idea what a Prevot even was (and these were fencers, not YMCA administrators, or some such).

The USFCA path fits your time and budget. I think you answered your question in your post.

Allen

[AaronK]

I agree with Allen.
I have attended the Coaches College and am certified by the USFCA. (I have attended PAFA clinics also, and taught 2 of them several years ago.)

The USFCA does not currently have a coach training program. With the great number of different fencing schools/styles etc. in the US, it would be difficult for fencing masters to agree on a single system for teaching coaches. I also believe it would be difficult to create an "American" school under the auspices of the USFCA for the same reasons.
The coaches college, though not certifying moniteurs/prevosts/masters is training new coaches, or providing coaching information that is not always easy to come by in this country. True that it only comes once a year, and isn't cheap to travel to.
I had both Level 3 and Prevost on a resume when I applied to Vassar College 6 years ago. The Athletic Director told me point blank that he had no idea what those meant in terms of my ability to coach fencing. My ability to coach effectively was communicated him from the head coach at the time as well as my references (college PE teacher, and head coach at UCSD). When I took and passed the level 4 program, Vassar didn't give me a raise, though they would have provided money for me to go to the program had I asked for it.
When I owned my own club, my students really didn't know the difference between a prevost and a master, though they had a vague idea what "Fencing Master" was supposed to mean. Since the USFA was providing coach members with individual liability insurance, there were times when I questioned what the USFCA has done to provide me services valuable as a coach. (And I realize the difficulty to do so with such a small membership, and operating only as voulenteers).

[GrimRiposter]

I thought I'd throw my two cents in, too. I've been participating in Coaches College since '99, finishing Level 2 Foil, Level 2 Epee and Level 1 Saber, and received my Prevot certification in August of last year.

I would agree that Coaches College is a great way to get training as a coach. Speaking as someone who was trying to start a club and train fencers having never worked with a trained fencing coach (I learned from another student at college), Coaches College was a fantastic opportunity for me and the material was exactly what I needed. My job gives me the opportunity to attend every year, which makes it easier for me.

I started to pursue certification through the USFCA when I realized that I wanted to push myself more as a coach. Preparing for the exams challenged me to grow as a coach and learn a lot of things that have helped me as a coach. In some cases it reinforced what I had learned at Coaches College and some of it was new to me. Working with a Fencing Master from the area to prepare for the exams by watching me give lessons and provide feedback and advice was also of great value to me.

As with a previous poster, no one in my club had any idea of what a Prevot was when I started this. Some had a general idea of what a Fencing Master was, mostly from listening to me talk. I now have five of my coaches with their Moniteur certification and at least three have talked about staring to work towards their Prevot as well. Several of them have also started to attend Coaches College.

I would say both have been very beneficial to me in different ways, with both paths helping me to improve my coaching skills. Coaches College has given me a lot of good training and pursuing my certification has given me a challenge to really push myself as a coach.

[Bryn Ralph]

Does anyone know the forthcoming dates for the USFCA Coaches College to be held in Colorado Springs this summer of 2007?

[AaronK]

Talking to michael marx yesterday, he said that there were things still being worked out. I believe there was another thread explaining the situation.