Preferred clip question

[mutantmoose]

Okay, so I've rebuilt and cleaned out all six Uhlmann reels at the club, and boy, were they gross.

Now, everything is back together, but I am wondering...

What clip do people prefer for hooking up the cable to their jacket/lame?

There are the original spring clips, dog collar clips, big d-ring clips, etc. We have them all, but I wonder what would be easiest and most preferred by a variety of fencers. I suppose that the most important opinions come from our veteran fencers, especially those over 60 or so, since they are most likely to have problems making the connection. (I don't enjoy hooking up either, but I can see how it might be really difficult for those who are older or bulkier than me. Though there aren't many who are bulkier than me.)

This is really nit-picky stuff, but I think the experience of fencing should be involve as much fencing as possible, and as little trying to figure out the equipment as possible.

So, to start off -

I hate the original spring-style clips. The dog collar ones are fine, and the big d-rings aren't bad, but seem to require a bit more movement.

[Asprin]

When you say dog collar clip do you mean one like the one in this link?

http://www.fordogtrainers.com/Produc...h-tracking.jpg

Because that type of clip is the easiest to use, at least in my opinion.

[Purple Fencer]

When you say dog collar clip do you mean one like the one in this link?

http://www.fordogtrainers.com/Produc...h-tracking.jpg

Because that type of clip is the easiest to use, at least in my opinion.

I've never been good at putting those on...having to hold it open and find the fairly small hole is a problem since I do everything one handed (to keep a grip on my weapon and know where the point is...good in tight quarters)

I prefer the original teardrop-shaped spring clip myself. All i have to do is insert it into the D ring, push against the ring....the clip opens up...pull back...snap, into place.

[SJCFU#2]

First, I think that you need to establish a common understanding of what's what. If you look at various manufacturers you will find listings for "trigger snaps" (Uhlmann), "spring clips" (Favero) and "dog snaps" (Leon Paul), yet they all look alike.

I have often used the dog leash-type hooks that Asprin appears to be describing - mostly because they tend to be readily available at Home Depot or Lowes. I find they tend to be more difficult to use when hooking up or unhooking. They also are more complex and therefore tend to fail more often. But replacements are cheap and readily available.

Another option would be to use a carabiner-type hook (also readily available at HD or Lowes). However they tend to cost more then dog-leash hooks and I suspect they would be at least as difficult to use, if not worse.

Leon Paul used to have some really nice clips that were similar in form to the alligator clips used for body cord (although obviously much narrower). These were very easy to use but replacements were difficult to find.

My vote for the best combination of simplicity, ease-of-use and low cost would probably what Uhlmann calls a trigger snap - provided they are large enough to allow easy handling with a gloved hand. Earlier Favero reels (circa 2003) had smaller clips that were more difficult to use. Newer Favero reels (circa 2006) seem to be coming with larger clips, similar in size to Uhlmann's. The biggest problem I've always had is finding them at a local retailer - I'm sure that I could order them order them but with a small order the cost of shipping could easily exceed the cost of the clips.

[campb1pr]

We found that these style snap hooks work quite well for all levels of dexterity, and are commonly available from hardware stores all around, as well as online. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...s-20/ref=nosim I got them for $1.49 per at a local hardware store - not a Lowe's or Home Depot, but a local store.

[CvilleFencer]

Of course the problem with the ones that campb1pr mentions is that sometimes fencers walk off with them still attached to their jackets after pools leaving you very annoyed when you go to a strip to start DE's! At least the solution is easy. Find the last person to fence in the pool on that side and threaten to black card them unless they give you back the "reel component" they absconded with!

[mutantmoose]

Nice thing about the ones that campb1pr linked to is that you could attachem them to whatever kind of clip you like, so if they disappear, you still have a clip to use.

Thanks for the ideas!

[fencerbill]

I prefer the original teardrop-shaped spring clip myself. All i have to do is insert it into the D ring, push against the ring....the clip opens up...pull back...snap, into place.

My problem with these is in unhooking. I almost always have to use two hands. As a result, almost all of the reels in the Boston area now have the dog leash type.

[Purple Fencer]

My problem with these is in unhooking. I almost always have to use two hands. As a result, almost all of the reels in the Boston area now have the dog leash type.

Really? I've never had much of a problem doing it left handed...and i do almost nothing left handed.

Pull it so the D ring is at the wide end of teh clip,,,push the clip open, pull back (making sure the clip follows along the d ring) and it should come right out...

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I have some vague tingling in the back of my brain that there has been more than one way to rework carabiners so they won't come off. I don't know where, I don't know why I say it... But.... I do.

Hands down, I prefer carabiners. Dog leashes as a second. My left hand is pretty much useless in terms of fine motor skills (I mean, typing and guitar playing is mostly fine, but that's with my hand in a stable position................) So I need something veeeery easy.

[Purple Fencer]

My left hand is pretty much useless in terms of fine motor skills (I mean, typing and guitar playing is mostly fine, but that's with my hand in a stable position................)

Same with me playing brass...on a drum corps soprano bugle, there's a trigger on the first valve slide to tune up certain notes that are always out of tune on G horn...even today, if I'm "air fingering" one of the shows I've played, my left thumb work the trigger....but aside from that, i might as well be one-bn hnjarmed!

[mrbiggs]

I am shocked that anyone likes the dog collar kind. I find them hard to take off, and sometimes nearly impossible to put on. I, like Purple Fencer, like doing it one handed, so that might have something to do with it.

Also my (epee) jacket is the Estoc, and has a HUGE D-ring that the dog clips usually don't fit on.

What I like is the normal teardrop shaped ones, especially the really big ones. They're easy to put on and take off.

[MTD]

A year or two ago, I went to the effort of polling my club about the preferred type of device for attaching reels to fencers. The only thing I managed to determine is that the majority of the club opposes every reasonable option. Everybody has his favorite, but no faction can gather majority support!

So, I resigned myself to the possibiliity alienating the majority of the club no matter what I installed! I decided I should look for what was cheap and readily available, and looked believably like it was already what was on that reel (so nobody would realize that I had made a decision, and get miffed at what I had decided).

I too am interested in how to procure Uhlmann-like clips in small quantities (e.g., by the ten instead of by the thousand) at cheaper prices than when bought as fencing gear. The closest I have come is lanyard clips (with the associated lanyards) in hobby or office supply stores, but those clips are too small.

[mutantmoose]

Okay, that's pretty much what I was getting as well. It appears that the problem is not the kind of clip, but the location and quality of the loop on the jacket or lame that it is attached to.

Thanks everybody!

[DJ Apostrophe]

We have the carabiners at our club. they are attached to favero reeels. There is a small loop where the stock clip normally is. This stock clip been removed and the carabiner was put through the loop. We initially had the problem of people walking of with the biners, and solved this problem with tape... Dave put two wraps of tape on the biner, one on each side of the loop... about 10-15 wraps thick. This locks the biner in place and keeps it from being able to walk away.

Very easy to attach/detach, no issues with the size of the d-ring on the jacket, and every fencer can handle it just fine, from our 8 year olds to our veterans.

-w

[FoilyDeath]

I really hate the dog collar ones...they have a habit of snaping. I love the tear shaped ones myself.

[wbowman]

The dog collar ones are fine if they're big enough so you can get a thumb on the slide button easily. The really small ones are a pain.
That said, the teardrop-shaped ones that you just snap on are preferable.
The real key is to have a good swivel on it so you don't have to maneuver the plug at the same time as you're lining it up with the ring on your jacket.

[Asprin]

I was at a comp trying to disconnect my self from a teardrop clip, and I could not do it one handed. Since i was doing sabre and the bayonet connection was being stupid I had to get some one to help. A Doglead one or a Karibiner could have been done one handed.

[Purple Fencer]

I was at a comp trying to disconnect my self from a teardrop clip, and I could not do it one handed. Since i was doing sabre and the bayonet connection was being stupid I had to get some one to help. A Doglead one or a Karibiner could have been done one handed.

1) Grip clip such that your thumb is against the part of the clip that opens up...pull slightly so the D ring is up against the large, closed end of the clip.

2) Push with thumb until the clip opens up...push farther than you think you need to.

3) Holding the clip open, push the clip forward such that the D ring runs along the inside of the clip, toward the opening (may help to push slightly down as well

4) Keep pushing until the D ring passes through the opening...you're free.

[Asprin]

They were pretty much brand new and were quite hard to open with both hands.